So what's your point Hudson, that all the McDonald, Wendys, Burger King, Taco Bell etc. workers are negligible because they constitute a small percentage?
How many people earned $6 an hour and how many earned $10 an hour that could pay health insurance?
How does the ratio of the 400.000 insurance peddlers work against the 50+ million of uninsured people in this country?
Shall we save the 400.000 or the 50-70 million Hudson, or are they negligible?

How to Market Obama to Your Republican Friends
by Press to Digitate

Sun May 18, 2008 at 10:12:19 AM EST
As a [now formerly] lifelong Republican, a [Goldwater] Conservative, and a former GOP activist, operative and professional campaign manager, now ardently supporting Sen. Barack Obama, I feel that I have the proper perspective from which to advise this audience on how to "sell" Obama to your Republican friends, relatives, and business associates.

There is a large reservoir of discontent among Republicans who are dissatisfied with John McCain as the GOP nominee. As the recent 25% votes against him in the now uncontested primaries indicate, this dissention is far deeper and more persistent than it will be among Clinton Democrats, when the dust settles in August. These votes, and those of other Republicans now disenchanted are ripe for the picking this fall - IF you know how to make the case to these people.

Below the fold I'll try to give several viable talking points which should hold you in good stead with most any Republican you come across, talking politics with between now and the election...

Press to Digitate's diary :: ::
In general, Republican voters dont have the same priorities as Democrats. The reasons YOU support Sen. Obama are most likely NOT the factors on which your Republican associates will make their voting decisions. Dont assume that your 'hot button' issues are necessarily even important to them, nor belittle the priorities they bring to the voting booth.

First, to most Republicans, the cornerstone Democratic issues of "Health Care", "Education", and "Jobs" just dont even register in the top five issues on which they will base their vote. Arguing that Obama will best handle such subjects wont win their vote even if they believe you that he is best on these issues. Moreover, Republicans will generally have less confidence in the government to deliver health care, and more confidence in private schools to deliver education than you will. Dont argue these issues, arguments just harden attitudes; save your breath - just dont go there. You want their actual VOTE, not their nodding agreement on some arcane philosophical issue.

Second, resist the urge to "Bush Bash". While many (even Most) Republicans are no longer enamored with the President, that doesnt mean they are sympathetic with everyone wanting to dump on him, either. They may feel President Bush to have been well intentioned, though blundering; they may have felt events got out of his control, they may even blame the Democratic Congress for his apparent failings. Again, DONT GO THERE. Its not a fight worth having. You dont win VOTES by fighting with people, you win by leading them to the better alternative - from their vantage point, not yours. George W. Bush is not on this ballot, and neither is his Vice President running to succeed him. That "Bush Third Term" drivel just wont cut it in winning Republican votes. Fortunately, with Obama as our candidate, we can make a better, more substantive case than that.

Third, the only really serious, pervasively damaging charge the GOP will make against Obama is the tried-and-true tactic of painting him as a traditional "tax-and-spend-liberal-democrat, squishy-on-national-defense", in the mold of John Kerry, Michael Dukakis, Walter Mondale, etc. To most Republicans, that's the killer - if they believe it. All other charges and acusations, no matter how scurrilous, are secondary and incidental to that one. If they buy the 'tax-and-spend-liberal' label, they'll believe all the muddier garbage gossip; if they reject that charge as bogus, they'll most likely reject any other labels that may be pinned on him as 'not credible' either. EVEN IF you, in your heart-of-hearts believe we need more taxes and spending, and you pray to your humanistic wiccan goddess every night (j/k) that Obama will bring these things, for the sake of the Polar Bears, keep those wishes to yourself!!! To obtain an Obama VOTE, you are appealing to your Republican friend's existing sensibilities, rather than trying to change them.

You may not agree with the following policy conclusions which led me to cross over for the first time in my life, and vote for Sen. Obama in Virginia's open primary, but THEY DID. And these same issues will resonate with other Republicans in voting booths across the country this fall...

1. TAXES. As a member of the Illinois State Senate, Sen. Obama was cosponsor of a bill which ultimately passed, creating the largest tax cut in state history. Since the start of his presidential campaign, he has consistently favored a broad-based middle class tax cut. By contrast, Sen. McCain "voted against tax cuts before he voted for them", and has no real credibility on this issue among conservatives. McCain was very critical of the Bush tax cuts, which most Republicans believe gave us years of prosperity - until very recently. Obama can thus be taken more seriously than McCain as a President who will cut taxes, rather than raise them.

2. SPENDING. Most Republicans' biggest gripe with their own party - by far - is its failure to control the bureaucracy and reign in runaway federal spending and deficits. It is useful to mention that while the last five (5) Republican Presidents promised fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets, all of them grew discretionary civilian spending by tremendous amounts, and ran up ever larger deficits. Meanwhile, only Pres. Bill Clinton balanced the federal budget, and produced four years of surpluses, with the same forecast long into the indefinite future. A big problem with the federal budget is that almost nobody knows where all the money is going; its easy to add earmarks and pork barrel spending and special interest giveaways when the people back home cant tell the difference. Sen. Barack Obama's major legislative accomplishment in the Senate, the The Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 has been to bring transparency to federal spending. Send your Republican friends to http://www.federalspending.gov which his legislation created, a veritable "Google of the Federal Budget", where anyone can research every dollar to see where their tax money is actually going. The whole Federal Rathole is now online, for the first time ever, inviting scrutiny from whoever has the patience to slog through it all. You dont have to be a CPA to realize that this does more in the long run to control wasteful federal spending than all the speeches Bush, Bush, Reagan, Ford, and Nixon ever gave on the subject, put together.

3. BIG GOVERNMENT. In his North Carolina victory speech, among other things, Sen. Obama uttered the words "We dont need Big Government". Whether you agree with that or not, remind your Republican friends that Pres. Bill Clinton's National Performance Review reduced the federal civilian workforce by 250,000 positions (ones they will consider, rightly or wrongly, to be useless tax-****ing bureaucrats). This makes the last Democratic administration the only presidency since Eisenhower's to leave office with a smaller federal workforce that he started with - again, Bush, Bush, Reagan, Ford, and Nixon notwithstanding. But, the real stones Obama brings to the table on this issue are his formative years on the south side of Chicago, doing meaningful community social work through voluntary, faith-based, non-governmental community organizations, rather than government bureaucracies. Yes, We CAN - rehabilitate the homeless, educate the illiterate, provide day care for single moms, dry out alcoholics, and clean junkies off the dope without buidling perpetual bureaucracies - Obama himself has proven that, through social entrepreneurship. By contrast, John McCain has never drawn a day's pay that didnt come from the public trough, courtesy of your tax dollars (getting fabulously rich by marrying an heiress or taking money under the table from special interests he did favors for doesnt count as 'earning money in the productive sector').

4. PERSONAL LIBERTY. Barry Goldwater must be rolling over in his grave over what debasements of the U.S. Constitution the Bush Administration has gotten itself into, and which the man who took his seat in the U.S. Senate, John McCain now ardently defends. Warrantless domestic wiretapping, warrantless searches and seizures, arresting U.S. citizens without probable cause, holding them without trial, etc., etc....No REAL conservative believes these things are legitimate perrogatives of the federal government. There are innumerable horror stories you can research and recount of how the GOP has sat idly by while our cherished Constitutional protections have been ignored, abrogated, and turned into a joke. The last thing real conservatives want is the Orwellian Police State we're presently heading for. Grassroots Republicans dont necessarily trust the feds any more than you do. Thats a case you can make - and make stick - with them.

5. NATIONAL SECURITY. To the rejoinder, "yes, but its worked, we havent been attacked since 9/11", you must add: "BUT, we havent foreclosed the threat by taking out al Queada, either". The National Security argument is like the Tax-and-Spend one, it doesnt matter where you stand on "bombing al Queada back to the stone age" - the fact remains that your Republican friends will vote for the candidate they perceive to be most in tune with that idea, period. McCain vocally disagrees with the successful CIA program to take out al Queada leadership when located in northwest Pakistan, without alerting the local tribal authorities and Pakistani Intelligence, who have always warned off our targets in the past. Sen. Obama, by contrast, opposes giving al Queada sanctuary in Pakistan, and ardently supports this initiative. When McCain attacked Obama as niave for "wanting to bomb an ally", the very next day the CIA took out the #3 leader in al Queada with just such a raid, with a missile fired from a Predator drone. Coddling Pakistan's corrupt dictator for these eight years hasnt made us safer, and John McCain's simplistic continuation of this weak policy is just being Soft on Terrorism, no way around it. Also, its worth noting that whatever other implications it may have for John McCain's Character, Psyche, or Mental Makeup, having a plane shot out from under you and spending six years behind bars does not automatically qualify anyone as a "national security expert"; that notion is just ludicrous on the face of it.

6. OPPORTUNITY. While John McCain's four-star Admiral father ensured him a prized appointment to the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis, his performance - 894th out of 899 cadets in his class - does not attest to diligent effort, whereas Barack Obama (from a broken home, on food stamps) won competitive academic scholarships to Harvard, which he proved himself worthy of by graduating Magna *** Laude ("With Highest Honors"). Its been a long time since any politicians of either party could talk convincingly about "The American Dream", but Barack Obama can, because he lived it. Without handouts, family patronage, or inheritence, he pulled himself up by his bootstraps from the Chicago ghetto through his own hard work, enterprise, and initiative to become President of the Harvard Law Review, one of the most prestigious scholarly legal journals in the country. Which President is more likely to make a difference in the lives of people, and motivate them with initiative to best achieve their individual God-given potential?

Those are the issues that real, hard-core Republicans think about when they vote for a president. Talk TO them - not past them with vague, touchy-feely bleeding heart nonsense they wont understand or agree with - and you might very likely ring up another VOTE for Barack Obama this fall. Getting your friends VOTE is all that matters, not winning their hearts to any grander philosophical cause; that just wont happen, so forget it. Make common cause between your GOP acquaintences and Sen. Obama, even if its on points you, yourself, disagree with. THAT'S HOW YOU WILL WIN THIS ELECTION FOR OBAMA.

Once you wash that "tax-and-spend liberal, squishy-on-national-security" label away, none of the other, lesser acusations the Karl Roves and Rush Limbaughs of this world can make against Obama will stick, either. All other things thus being equal, the younger, more intelligent, more dynamic, less "Washington Establishment", less 'tainted-by-special-interest-money' candidate should prevail. Even among Republicans...

link to original including a poll and comments

Would that work on ya Hudson or not?

Which party has been in control of the Senate and Congress for the last 10 years? The Dems right? Well, it seems to me then, for you to blame one guy instead of the party in control is a bit obtuse. Don't you think?

Listen my fellow Nigerian. The issue was about taxes. More specifically, unfair taxes. Let me ask you a question. How many times should a person be taxed on a single purchase? How many times is fair? One, two, infinite? For example. If you own a business. The things you bought for the business are taxed when you buy them, right? No problem. Everyone pays sales tax. Before you jump in Hudson. These are not items purchased for resale. So the argument of tax exempt status is irrelevant.

Each and every year the city or state sends yet another tax bill for the things you already have in your factory or office. Right down to the staple gun. Is that right? I don't think so. Here is another. Personal property tax. One of my favorites. If you own an RV or Boat or Plane. Guess what? You guessed right if you said they come back and tax those items again and again.

The money these agencies take is siphoned out of business production. What that means is this. Less jobs since there is less capitol for expansion. Every business wants to expand and become larger. That translates into more and better jobs. The higher the taxes the less economic growth. That is what the republican party is fighting against. The gradual demise of our economy into a welfare state.

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
Which party has been in control of the Senate and Congress for the last 10 years? The Dems right? Well, it seems to me then, for you to blame one guy instead of the party in control is a bit obtuse. Don't you think?

Listen my fellow Nigerian. The issue was about taxes. More specifically, unfair taxes. Let me ask you a question. How many times should a person be taxed on a single purchase? How many times is fair? One, two, infinite? For example. If you own a business. The things you bought for the business are taxed when you buy them, right? No problem. Everyone pays sales tax. Before you jump in Hudson. These are not items purchased for resale. So the argument of tax exempt status is irrelevant.

Each and every year the city or state sends yet another tax bill for the things you already have in your factory or office. Right down to the staple gun. Is that right? I don't think so. Here is another. Personal property tax. One of my favorites. If you own an RV or Boat or Plane. Guess what? You guessed right if you said they come back and tax those items again and again.

The money these agencies take is siphoned out of business production. What that means is this. Less jobs since there is less capitol for expansion. Every business wants to expand and become larger. That translates into more and better jobs. The higher the taxes the less economic growth. That is what the republican party is fighting against. The gradual demise of our economy into a welfare state.

Davdah,

The republicans have gotten away with so many tax cuts over the Bush years, that it is high time to give a little something of it back now.

I, rather pay a little more taxes (what are a few bucks) and get more services out of the government. I don't like that America is not investing in schools, eduction enough so that the workforce it breeds will sustain the country later on.

I hate potholes and America is full of them!

And Dems are in for welfare state?
How mistaken and simpleminded this assertion is.
Here is my stance- I believe in capitalism, and the laws of the market: demand and supply, but only when they don't run away into profit driven corporatism that neglects its employees, cuts their wages to minimum, cuts their benefits, etc. to pander to stockholders.
Do you know how many small businesses were ruined the past 1.5 years because of those short term goals that ebay implemented in August 2007? Thousands of small mom and pop businesses were run out of business. Literally thousands.
I believe the United States is a great country because it was built on small business. Mom and pop business is what America stands on. So to claim that liberals/dems don't recognize that fact and are driving towards a socialistic society is utterly incorrect.
Democrats are all about balance, while many reps are ideologists who overstate the economic driving forces to a point of absurdity. Which is dangerous. A runaway capitalism is dangerous as much as a runaway socialism is, with socialism more dangerous I will state that. If I were to choose between socialism and runaway capitalism (fascism), I would choose the latter because on the grander scale, fascism at least changes power forces among nations. I won't deny getting rid of Saddam Husein was a good thing.

What I want to point out is that when we have a surplus, cutting taxes for the lower brackets, if not all of them is the thing to do. But if we have a deficit so enormous like we have right now, cutting taxes for the richest who don't even ask for them, does NOT make sense.
This bullheadedness of some reps who don't recognize the reality, don't even look at it or care about it (talking about fake patriotism), is what irks me, to say the least.
I am not in favor of red tape and large government. I believe that an advanced society at large can fend for itself and govern itself. I believe in responsibility, self reliance, and ambition, as well as the entreprenurial spirit of the American people. It's what makes this country great.
But there are times when we need the government. And I believe there are some things that should be excluded from the market like healthcare. It is a shame to make money on someone's health, and take advantage of people who can't afford it. In regards to the republican famous fammily values, ethics and morals- how do you explain making money on health??? Are there boundaries where the dollar stops, or not? This is what irks me the most- the relentless robot like, impersonal rules of the market that don't take into account the human factor is what makes corporatism fascism.
When you don't aknowledge the potential for abuse, you are putting a stamp on abuses that this situation creates. And you are not a true patriot either because you don't recognize your fellow countrymen, and the future of your country, esp. when you don't mind the deficit you are willing to create for them to pay off.
There are other ways to make money and create wealth and grow the economy other than military, or healthcare. But you need to be creative and show your true entreprenurial spirit, to create positive opportunities. When you create negative opportunities to make money, you run this country down.
People such as Davdah seem not to mind it.

Not investing in schools? Ever look at how much we spend per child compared to other countries?

Tax cut? You make it sound like a bad thing. It isn't. Much of the problem with education has to do with special interests and teachers unions.

Pot holes, look at the road crews assigned to fix them. Really take a look next time. How many guys do you see actually working versus how many are standing there watching? I don't like the idea of paying for someone else's refusal to work or not doing the job they are being paid for.

Giving it back? Part of the Dem talking points but you don't really understand what you're saying. Give what back? Are you saying I stole it? That neither I nor anyone else legitimately earned what we have? Thats the implication with a comment like that. It isn't that we need more tax money. It just needs to be spent a little more wisely. How is that when Reagan reduced taxes the economy took off?
And again, the senate and congress is who approves a budget and any tax increases or decreases. And, there have been plenty of tax increases. Bush's cuts where in only a couple areas.

quote:

Originally posted by iperson:
So what's your point Hudson, that all the McDonald, Wendys, Burger King, Taco Bell etc. workers are negligible because they constitute a small percentage?
How many people earned $6 an hour and how many earned $10 an hour that could pay health insurance?
How does the ratio of the 400.000 insurance peddlers work against the 50+ million of uninsured people in this country?
Shall we save the 400.000 or the 50-70 million Hudson, or are they negligible?

IP,
Do not confuse the issue of raising the wage base and affordable health insurance. They are mutually exclusive. If you truly want to lower health insurance premiums, then I would get on the prevention bandwagon. Health prevention such as eating right, exercise regularly, and eliminating unsafe health practices. will lower health premiums directly The more health claims are paid in a year, the higher the premiums will rise in future years, Insurance the the management of risk. Higher the risk, higher the premiums.

Now, I am snt saying we should ban McDonalds' and every other fast food restaurant, but what i am saying is that consumers do chose how to live. Why is it that consumers never want to accept the consequences of their own actions and blame somebody else. This class welfare tactic has got to go. Blaming big business ir the insurance industry is not the answer. It is only a political soundbite.

quote:

Originally posted by Kollerkrot:
Davdah,

The republicans have gotten away with so many tax cuts over the Bush years, that it is high time to give a little something of it back now.

I, rather pay a little more taxes (what are a few bucks) and get more services out of the government. I don't like that America is not investing in schools, eduction enough so that the workforce it breeds will sustain the country later on.

I hate potholes and America is full of them!

Koller,
I used to work for the government and you cannot get any more or better service than with a national Department store, cell phone company, or any other large business. There really is a lot of things you can do. When was the last time you were in a city council meeting? A zone planning meeting? or how about a school board meeting? Those have a more direct impact than the Federal government has on a day to day affair.

As for schools, investing needs to be through parents, not $$$. It is fine if they have all the latest gadgets, but if you teach the kids how to take a test and not knowledge, then the $$$ went down the drain. Show me a good school and I will show you an outstanding PTF. But for me, I would prefer the school system, particularly the urban school districts, be more like Japan or South Korea.

The only duty the federal government should have is creating a national set of standards for evry student. All funding, control, and administration should still be in the hands of local areas.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hudson,

Spoken like a true Republican.

quote:

I rather pay a little more taxes (what are a few bucks) and get more services out of the government. I don't like that America is not investing in schools, eduction enough so that the workforce it breeds will sustain the country later on.

The IRS accepts donations. Feel free to pay in more.

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
Spoken like a true Republican.

I repeat, I am not a Republican, just a realist.

One thing is for sure. Obama is s.c.r.e.w.e.d in KY, esp among women. It's so hard to talk to KY voters. Most hang ups ever. Out of 10 calls, only 1 is voting for him in the primary, 2 will vote in November.
It's a disaster in KY.
How do I convince women to vote for Obama???

S.c.r.e.w.e.d and KY. An interesting play on words. Nice job.

The New Majority: 75,000 Rally in Portland for Obama



see more here and here.

McSame has not one little chance to win this. The nation is behind Barack Obama, and I am a proud supporter.

I would agree if the entire nation were in Oregon.

Actually, I'm not sure that's the entire population of Oregon...

Huckabee says he would like to be McCain's No. 2

WASHINGTON - Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee said Sunday he'd like to be John McCain's running mate.

"There's no one I would rather be on a ticket with than John McCain," said Huckabee, who was a stronger than expected challenger against McCain for the Republican presidential nomination. "All during the campaign when I was his rival, not a running mate, there was no one who was more complimentary of him publicly and privately. ... I still wanted to win, but if I couldn't, John McCain was always the guy I would have supported and have now supported.



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