I have duplicated (so shoot me)this article out of ipersons thread called progress. the controversial video in the article listed here:

pastor wright full video

Three Reasons why Obama Can't Win in General Election

Fri Mar 21, 2008 at 09:03:49 AM PDT

I have always considered myself to be an openminded and logical person. It was one of the main reasons why I rejected the idea of organized religion when I was a teenager. Someone standing over a pulpit shouting out that a man lived inside a whale for three days or that a burning bush began to talk or that a man lifted his hands and was allowed to split an entire sea in half or that two men turned wooden staffs into living, breathing (and apparently, hungry) snakes seemed more like science fiction to me than anything else. I have always been a person who sided with reason over sensation, facts over speculation. And as a professional poker player, being gullible comes at a price.

listentous's diary :: ::
I am now a very religious person with a strong faith in Jesus, but these are the complexities that I bring to the following analysts of Barack Obama and his chances of winning in a general election. Many will not agree with me, and many more may very well take offense with my views. Even as a strong Obama supporter, I refuse to reject reason or logic. So, if anything, this diary is a plea for someone to use reason and logic to explain to me how I am wrong. I welcome such revelations, honestly)

There are three reasons why I am now beginning to believe Obama probably can't win in a general election against McCain. Those reasons are as follows:

REASON NUMBER 1: Democrats are, for lack of a better word, cowards. Democrats, though noble in the stance to remain strong advocates for the poor and disadvantaged in our society, are for the most part lacking in testicular fortitude. From liberals to so-called progressives, Democrats are defense minded and reaction oriented. They have allowed the Republicans to DEFINE what it means to be American and patriotic. Republicans only have to call a democratic candidate or position "un-American" and the Democratic party runs home, crying to Mommy that the big Republican bully took our lunch money. Democrats have become ballerinas in a full contact mixed-martial arts sport.

Obama, as elegant and intelligent and deserving as he is, will never be able to get the Democratic Party to grow *****. As soon as the Republican Attack Machine starts calling Obama unpatriotic and un-American and racists and everything else outside the N-Word, the Democratic Party--the so called leaders in the party and the yellow "seeming" party members--will start to whine and complain about attacks being "unfair." I trust Obama to be a man of integrity and a man of impeccable reason and judgment. But I have a fear that he is leading a party of cowards to face-off with the neighborhood bully. (Until democrats grab the dialogue back from republicans and DEMAND that we redefine what's American and patriotic--like zero tolerance for homeless vets, like making homeland security ACTUALLY SECURE, like ending the war in Iraq, and most importantly FINALLY GETTING OSAMA---then we will always be on the sidelines complaining about "fear tactics." On this point, as much as I hate the "bush-like" tactics of Clinton, one thing is for certain...the Clintons are not punks. They don’t need the Democratic Party to grow spines to win, Clinton will fight so dirty and so nasty and so evil that McCain won't stand a chance. (I wouldn't be surprised to learn a year year from now that the Clintons concocted a database of information on all her potential republican adversaries well before she ran for president, just so she could use it against whomever the republican nominee happened to be in 2008. The Clintons know how to fight monsters--become one.)

Obama is too noble, with too much principle, with TOO MUCH RESPECT FOR THE CONSTITUTION, to stoop to such a level. This means he will need the Democratic Party to grow a backbone. Frankly, I don't see that happening. Shawn Hannity and Bill O'Riley could single-handedly take down any of our democratic counterparts with their Jerry Springer-like news coverage.

REASON 2: Most Americans are, sorry to be blunt, just plain stupid. As much as I love my country, as much as I tell everyone that I wouldn’t rather live anywhere else in the world--and I have been to casinos on every part of the planet--the horrible reality is that we are not the "brightest" folks on the planet. Too many Americans are oversized 5th graders trapped inside a mental recess. We just don't like to think. I have read countless studies over the past few years regarding the "Dumb-ing Down" of Americans. (I tried to find a link to the study I read last year that showed over 40% of Americans think WWI was fought sometime between 1800-1900, but I couldn't find it with Google.) This may very well offend a lot of people (this usually offends the same people who can quote a long list of Harry Potter books, but can't name EVEN ONE Nobel Prize winning book) but the truth is inescapable: Americans are mentally...lazy.

This becomes a problem for Obama because his whole possibility requires a certain amount of "thinking." AVERAGE Americans have to be able to "think" about the problems we face in our society and abroad. But asking the same people who don't understand the complexities of race in America to understand that Al Qaeda In Iraq is not the same as the Osama's Al Qaeda that was behind 9/11 is like asking a random street dweller to explain evolution--it's something that should be common knowledge but isn't. (And just like evolution, people will give you twisted, distorted STRAWMAN answers, but nothing close to reality. Same thing with Iraq.)

Americans only care to think in short sound bites. "Smoke 'Em Out His (Fox)hole" or "Axis of Evil" are simple, 5th grade stuff that Americans can grasp without having to think too hard. Voting for and electing Obama for president in the face of the smear campaigns and attacks that will come from republicans requires a certain amount of clear thinking and logical reasoning and frank consideration that Americans have historically lacked. Hope may win Obama the nomination, but ignorance will cost him the general election.

To expect Americans to suddenly wake up and decide to finally use their brains is wistful thinking at best. Fear and ignorance works hand in hand. This is why race is a harmful factor in this election. Not because Obama is black, but because of our ignorance, we somehow think that race makes a big difference, even more so than policy positions. That is the level of our stupidity in America.

I don’t think America is smart enough to elect Obama over McCain. It's the choice many Americans face every day actually when they go to fast food joints. Every scientific study has proven that an obsessive diet of fast food is harmful to our health. But it's convenient and easy and doesn't interrupt our television time. Then we act surprised and offended and outraged when studies come out talking about how obese and overweight our children are nowadays. We are a great country, but a ridiculously dumb one.

Interestingly enough, Obama wins on this point over Clinton. Too many americans are dumb enough to think that being a female president is worst than being a black president.

AND REASON 3: The main stream media is blatantly lying to us. I don't know if it's because they have a political agenda or because they want to sell newspapers and boost ratings, but we are being lied to so often and so obviously that it's offensive. There is no sole source anymore for a "no-spin zone" in America, so many people are falling for the circus media outlets. Perfect case in point is the whole Rev. Wright situation.

Many Americans have seen the thirty second clips of the reverend Wright splashed over the news endlessly. And because Americans are not normally used to researching the truth (with a slight exception to the younger generation--who seem to understand that a quick search through Google can reveal more honesty than even CNN) they walked away thinking this man was filled with hate and all sorts of other things. But what Americans didn't get was an honest media that had the courage to SHOW THE VIDEOS IN CONTEXT.

When I first heard the clips, the first thing that came to my mind was this thought: "I wonder where I can get the whole speech." Less than a week later, I have finally had a chance to see the whole video, and I am absolutely ashamed of the media and the spineless Democrats who continue to let the right wing of the Republican Party push them around. ANY REASONABLE PERSON WHO WATCHES THE WHOLE VIDEO OF THE CLIPS CANNOT WALK AWAY CLAIMING THAT REV. WRIGHT IS HATEFUL OR ANTI-AMERICAN.

At one point in the video, a quote that Fox News clipped was actually Rev. Wright QUOTING SOMEONE ELSE!!! The media lied to us, and the Democratic Party, forever the cowards, balled up in a corner the moment the firestorm came. Just like the many years of this war in Iraq, the media has been a vehicle for spreading countless lies.

The media doesn’t INVESTIGATE the truth anymore. It's all sound bites and clips for an ignorant mass of people who can quickly list all the stars of American Idol and the basketball teams for March Madness, but who didn't know that close to 4000 troops have been killed in Iraq. But they certainly know whole lot about a certain NY governor and a ****, young prostitute. I wonder which issue the media gives the most coverage.

The media purposely distorted the Rev. Wright comments in my humble opinion. I was playing a low stakes poker game with a few of my poker buddies last night when the conversation about Rev. Wright came up. Six of the nine players at the table claimed that Rev. Wright was a racist and were offended by the relationship Obama had with the man for 20 years. But a very interesting thing happened once I showed them all the whole video. Expressions like "****, man, I sorta agree with him now" and "I can see where he's coming from" and "This isn't what I thought he said," filled the room. These men had once thought Rev. Wright was a racist because of the media spin and the lack of a democratic spine to force the truth out. Now they were re-evaluating their positions and THINKING differently. Check out a video here.video here

The truth is the media has more power than they deserve. They have proven unworthy of their role as practitioners of truth. The media seems as petrified of the right wing Republican Party as the Democrats are. Obama can’t win in a general election that’s not based on facts. If the Republican Party is allowed to frame the discussion of the election, as they are always able to do lately, Obama has no chance against McCain. The mainstream media will reach into its tabloid playbook and start repeating smear tactics instead of refuting them. Who can forget CNN hosting a poll asking is Obama "patriotic" enough? Those are the sensationalized questions the republicans love to ask, and so long as those questions sell newspapers and boost ratings, news outlets will continue to regurgitate them.

None of this would work against Obama if Democrats had guts. The Republican Party proved their toughness when they unified to take on the New York Times on behalf of John McCain. The results were so impressive even I had to give the republicans props. They made the New York Times fold up like a wet and crumpled and devalued dollar bill. Democrats are still whimpering over the things Shawn Hannity and Bill O’Riley are saying. The Republicans didn't whine, they pulled out their baseball bats and jumped into a street fight with the New York Times . Now the Democrats are pouting and moping over Fox News? There is no way such a cowardly party can win in the general election.

Clinton wins here. She has been able to manipulate the media at every turn, even if it meant absolutely making up things or fabricating or inventing an imaginary "president test." I mean, seriously, a president test. You have gotta be joking. And the always-in-search-of-gossipy-headlines media ate it up. This was the moment when the spineless Democratic Party and the ignorant masses and untruthful media came together and had a threesome.

The whole "president test" was such a ridiculous argument that laughed, outloud—until I saw how often it was repeated by the media and how many "intelligent" people bought into it. If Clinton can spin a "president test" to the media, she can handle Shawn. And she won’t need the Democratic Party to grow a spine in order to do so. Clinton will fight dirty all on her own, gleefully. Obama, a statesman at the core, a man who holds integrity to mean something, won’t allow himself to fight in the mud with Republicans. The Democrats would have to do it for him. And I’m not sure we have the guts. Rev. Wright proves that in my eyes.

UPDATE: (I have helped organized over ten meetings so far meant to help educate people about Obama and his record. I have a host of contacts in the poker world and whenever I am in a different city and have the time, I seek out volunteers and offer my support in hosting poker get-togethers that allow representatives to speak to influential people on a local level. I support Obama whole-heartedly. But just as I said with religion, I am not gullible, nor will I ever abandon REASON and LOGIC for anyone. If anyone can explain to me how these three things I posted will not harm Obama in the general election, I am all ears. Trust me, I WANT TO BE CONVINCED. But I see the tendency of Democrats to hold their tail between their legs playing out now, even before the nomination. How is it not logical to assume we will do the same later, when the attacks are ten times worse?)

refer to iperson thread for article link.

That's right. That's why I said BEWARE of the VICIOUS MEAN Republican political machine. I said this a long time ago, and yet some of the people here backed Hudson and Davdah against me.
They are the ones who belong to the uncompromising moral-less, scruple-less party.

Barack, and Democrats like him have much too much integrity to play dirty. We don't like mud slinging. We don't like to compromise our integrity.
But in today's world the bully wins, unfortunately.

Now, I am trying to be the bully, so don't complain. I am just doing what I have to, against the republican dirty political machine.

The complete You tube about Reverend Wright is enlightening. Politics is complicated enough without the media dabbling and giving a spin on things. The citizenry should be vigilant and really study the issues since the next president will either bring us up or down.

Interestingly enough,

after watching the entire video , and this author now says it wasnt so bad... or it wasnt as bad as it was reported. Not to mention that is was back in 2003.

then why did obama finally denounce the statements? Just for votes?

Do you think that his speech redeemed him? It was a kick butt speech. He put quite a spin on that top.

did you see it mrs B? I forgot to post the link.

obama race speech More perfect union

Oh well, No sooner than he gets out of the water hole, He is sinking again!


watch

Obama 'Typical White Person' Comment Delights Clinton AidesMarch 21, 2008 04:33 PM ET | Permanent Link


Hillary Clinton's strategists are delighted at what they consider Barack Obama's latest stumble in the hypersensitive world of racial politics.

Obama is drawing a new round of criticism for his comments on a Philadelphia radio sports program yesterday in which he said his grandmother is a "typical white person" who has fears about black men. He was attempting to explain a portion of his speech on race earlier this week—specifically, the statement that his white grandmother gets nervous when a black man approaches her on the street.

Obama told the radio host, "The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know, you know, there's a reaction that's been bred in our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society." Obama was already drawing flak for his association with a controversial preacher in Chicago who has made anti-American and antiwhite comments.

An Obama spokesman noted that the Illinois senator was trying to say that his grandmother has the same fears shared by many in her "generation."

Clinton insiders say Obama's remarks stereotyped whites in a negative way and will further alienate white working-class people around the country, including those in Pennsylvania, which holds a key primary April 22. Obama's remarks are being criticized on Fox News, NBC, MSNBC, and elsewhere in the media, keeping the controversy going. Clinton strategists say it's part of a broader problem—that Obama has not been sufficiently "vetted" and there are many areas of his life and background that have escaped scrutiny and might embarrass him later.



What is a typical white person?

Hmm Maybe a little of Pastor Wright rubbed off on Obama after all. Open mouth insert foot.

we need free HBO , you go obama lol

It's old news people, it's already been talked through and out and away, whatever. The typical white person thing.
Did you just wake up 4now?

Move on.

quote:

Originally posted by Jasmin:
obama's campaign and supports are already declaring of Obama winning the nomination. they r saying that getting the nomnation for obama is a done-deal because he has won more states, more pleadged delegates and more popular votes. but last time I checked I found candidates must have to have required number of delegades to secure the nomination. and winning more states and have more popular voters are not containing the rules of securing the nomination nor it holds any water for general election.

on the other hand, hillary has won almost every big states with at least 10% margin lead against obama except in tx where she won by 4-5% lead. and she has more electorol colleges than obama. a president election is decided upon wining electorol colleages and not winning more states and popular votes. how many Idaho and VT states would be equal to CA??????

obama hasn't been tested, he has not enough experience to be a president during the time of war and recession, he has almost same position on every matters as Hillary does. His association with rev. jermiah wright for 20 yrs despite of rev. anti-white views is very problematic. hillary seems looking more energetic and aggressive than he is. if democratic party would give nomination to obama, democrate would going to be lose, most probably believe it or not. democrate are already upset and sad in fl and mi that their voice hasn't be heard regardless of party's rules. they were not part of any agreement and breaking of party's rules, so they are saying why their voice is not being heard. obama had the opportunity to let their voice be heard but did not want because he knew hillary would have come so close to him in pleade delegades and would have taken lead on popular votes. this will hunt him and democratic party in general election.

I agree with everything you said Jasmin.
I see you're on top of things.
What you're readin'? I read DailyKos and ThinkProgress mostly. DailyKos is pro Obama, but I like getting in edgewise in there with my pro Hillary comments. There are so many bright and enthusiastic people on there, and the site is very interesting. I will be starting to write my diaries there. Believe it or not, people read them and comment on them like crazy. There are about ten thousand readers there daily.

quote:

Originally posted by iperson:
It's old news people, it's already been talked through and out and away, whatever. The typical white person thing.
Did you just wake up 4now?

Move on.

No Iperson.. did you?

Im just updating the thread for the forum. didnt see you doing any such thing though, just running your mouth and doing nothing as usual except your own personal blogs.

Ah team spirit


quote by iperson:
I will be starting to write my diaries there. Believe it or not, people read them and comment on them like crazy. There are about ten thousand readers there daily.



I see even you are shocked

Oh Iperson

BTW, We missed you in our discussion over at the "Immigration Articles" thread. Since you like discussions etc... but of course you wouldnt venture into that thread becuase you only generally read your own blogs.. uh I mean own threads.

It looks like I didn't miss anything 4now.
Dailykos is da place to be now. It's the most popular Democratic, or rather Pragmatic Progressive Blog in the whole wide world web. It's very well known, it's mentioned in the media even (CNN and others) quite frequently. Some known politicians write there as well.
We've had recently some very interesting conversations on politics about Russia.
What's nice about the platform is that you can have one to one conversation within a thread, and it doesn't disturb the whole thread, whether it is the main thread posted on the blogroll, or on one of a hundred or more diary pages posted by members. Diaries are the most interesting ones, written by some very talented and interesting people. Most don't make it on the first page in the daily diary rescue, but you can catch them being listed on the right column seen by registered members. When you register, you get your own page, with your own profile, and a capability to publish your own diaries. Diaries are basically blog posts but they don't appear on the main blogroll, but people still find them and make comments.
It's a very postmodern platform in art terms, if you know that term, which makes it very diversified, and rich in content.
When you register you have to wait 24 hours to be able to comment, and a week to post a diary. I've got three days left for my first diary. I can't wait.

Can you tell I'm excited? Lol. I don't really need anymore MSM. Compared to what some progressive independent media offer, the main stream media are negligible. Waste of time too.

Yes iperson


You sound excited and I am happy 4u. 3 days til your 1st diary eh....oops there goes the neighborhood.

In anyway, iperson.. I am glad that you are excited and I will be checking you out in your debut. Just do as good of a job that you did with Hillary's campaign pictures.. BTW, you actually made her look better than anyone else has to date. but no matter, because even bill doesnt want her.

Thank you tiger. Did I really make an impact?
I hope that wasn't a waste of time at least.

Ya know, I realize my writing skills are not the best, as english is till my second language, so I am not going to write a lot, or lead any campaigns for Hillary there. It's pretty much a lost cause at kos since most members are pro Obama.
What else is nice there. When you post a comment, others are giving it thumbs up or down, recommending the post, or not, for other members. It makes it easier for others to either read your post or skip it if it doesn't get any rating. Because there are so many comments on those threads. Some have hundreds and hundreds and that's within just one day. You can barely keep up with what is being said, so you end up having some one to ones or one to threes (there you go 4now, just gave you a material to poke fun with)...
Anyway, join in and see what it's like. You might end up switching parties as the end result, as there are a lot of eye opening things there. You might learn a thing or two, or at least see the other POV.

I'll drop by here from time to time, but not as much. Wish I had more time. I will be opening my brand new website this week, with at least three new blogs on other topics. So I have my work cut out for me.
I am also designing blogs for other people.

Oki, lata aligata.

What.. you are not taking the Hillary show on the road iperson? lol Well keep up the good work and Im sure success will be shortly in hand.


THINK PROGRESS!

ok moving on to McCain who is talking loud and saying nothing



McCain Addresses Housing Crisis Options


AP
Posted: 2008-03-25 13:28:56
SANTA ANA, Calif. (AP) - Republican John McCain said Tuesday that government isn't in the business of saving and rewarding banks or small borrowers who behave irresponsibly though he offered few immediate alternatives to fixing the growing housing crisis.

"I will consider any and all proposals based on their cost and benefits," the certain GOP presidential nominee, who has acknowledged in the past that the economy is not his strong suit, told local business leaders south of Los Angeles.

Democrats accused McCain of lacking the skills needed to lead a country on the brink of recession.

"Instead of offering a concrete plan to address the crisis at all levels, McCain promised to take the same hands-off approach that President Bush used to lead us into this crisis," Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean said in a statement.

The housing turmoil has rocked Wall Street and is dominating the presidential race as the nation faces an economic downturn and the Federal Reserve has taken steps to intervene.

Over the past two days, the Fed essentially bailed out the investment house Bear Stearns and announced it has auctioned another $50 billion in short-term loans at an interest rate of 2.615 percent to cash-strapped banks to help them overcome credit problems. Since December, the Fed has provided a total of $260 billion in short-term loans to banks.

On Monday, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton proposed several remedies to the home mortgage problems, including greater protections for lenders from possible lawsuits by investors, a variation of so-called tort reform.

McCain, in the midst of a weeklong western fundraising swing, focused on the home-financing crisis at an event in the Republican bastion of Orange County as he tried to rebut Democratic criticism of his economic credentials.

His pitch, though, offered little in the way of specific proposals to immediately address the crisis.

McCain said he wants to leave the door open to a wide array of proposals to address the problems and seemed to suggest he might even be open even to solutions that stray from the GOP line.

"I will not play election-year politics with the housing crisis," he said, adding he would evaluate all proposals. "I will not allow dogma to override commonsense."

But the small-government advocate and four-term Arizona senator also put restrictions on how far he was willing to go.

"I have always been committed to the principle that it is not the duty of government to bail out and reward those who act irresponsibly, whether they are big banks or small borrowers," McCain said. "Government assistance to the banking system should be based solely on preventing systemic risk that would endanger the entire financial system and the economy."

He said any government assistance to alleviate the housing crisis must be temporary and should be accompanied by reforms that aim to make the system more transparent and accountable to prevent a repeat of the crisis. He said no assistance should be given to speculators, or people who bought houses to rent or as second homes.

In the short term, he called for the country's accounting experts to meet to discuss current accounting systems and said the country's top mortgage lenders should pledge do everything possible to help their cash-strapped but creditworthy customers.

"They've been asking the government to help them out," McCain said of lenders. "I'm now calling upon them to help their customers, and their nation, out."

As a freshman senator, however, McCain took a different approach. In early 1991, the Senate's ethics committee concluded that McCain "exercised poor judgment in intervening with the regulators" on behalf of banker Charles Keating Jr. Keating was a wealthy Arizona real estate developer and owner of a California thrift that failed during a nationwide savings and loan crisis - when Keating and other bankers made risky investments with depositors' money.

McCain was known for accepting contributions from Keating, flying to the banker's home in the Bahamas on his company planes and taking up Keating's cause with U.S. financial regulators as they investigated him. Keating served more than four years in prison for fraud.



ok People. McCain is breathlessly waiting for you the people's suggestions on how to rectify this situation Ok he is not strong on economics, but this is a little over the top... this is our next commander in chief YIKES!