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Power Member
Picture of ProudUSC
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http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,172026...xid=site-cnn-partner

Debating a Primary Do-Over

Thursday, Mar. 06, 2008 By KAREN TUMULTY/WASHINGTON


Floridians vote at the C. Lawton McCall Community Center during the Florida Primary on January 29, 2008 in Miami Shores, Florida.
Marc Serota / GettyArticle

It is looking increasingly likely that Democrats in Florida and Michigan are going to have a do-over of their primaries, so that their 366 delegates — who could be enough to tip the nomination one way or the other — can be seated at this summer's Democratic National Convention in Denver. The big questions now: How would they do it, and who would pay for it?

The day after Hillary Clinton's victories over Barack Obama in the Ohio and Texas primaries made the race even tighter, Florida Governor Charlie Crist, a Republican, and Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm, a Democrat, called upon the party to seat their delegates, saying to do otherwise would silence "the voices of 5,163,271 Americans" who voted in their primaries. In Florida, for instance, 1.75 million Democrats voted, which was the best Democratic turnout in state history. That sentiment has been echoed by Clinton supporter Florida senator Bill Nelson as well as the Clinton campaign itself, which won both crucial swing states and could pull even with, or possibly ahead of, Obama if its share of the delegates were being counted.

Still, as the Obama campaign has never tired of pointing out, all of the Democratic candidates had refused to campaign in either state. And in Michigan, Barack Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot (40% of the vote there, in fact, went to "uncommitted.") Many voters who might have gone to the polls say they didn't. For that reason, the Democratic National Committee (DNC), and its embattled head Howard Dean, keep stressing that it wouldn't be fair now to suddenly change the rules that were agreed to a year ago. (The Clinton camp, however, insists it simply agreed not to campaign in the two states, not to have their delegates thrown out.)

The DNC voted to strip the two states of their delegates if they decided to move their primaries earlier than Feb. 5. (The Republicans, for their part, opted for a lighter punishment, vowing to take away half of each state's GOP delegates.) But the states moved their primaries ahead anyway.

At the time, it looked like the whole thing would be academic. Both Michigan and Florida are crucial swing states, and neither party was willing to alienate the electorate come November. Surely, everyone thought, the party would have a nominee long before the convention, and the two states would then be allowed to go ahead and send their delegates anyway.

That indeed is what is likely to happen with the Republicans, who now have a nominee in John McCain. But with the Democratic race dragging on into at least April, the fate of that party's Florida and Michigan delegates is looking more and more important in determining who the nominee will be.

So what happens now? One thing that both states have made clear is that any new vote must not be paid for with public money, and the Democratic National Committee doesn�t have the cash to do it either. That, however, is not an insurmountable obstacle, as federal law allows the state parties to raise unregulated �soft money,� and well-heeled Democratic donors across the country presumably would see the need to get the issue resolved and chip in, especially if both campaigns support the idea. "The biggest incentive for both campaigns is that this is a way to repair all the damage, and build for November," says one Florida party official.

The bigger question is how would they do it. In Michigan, which has experience holding caucuses, that route is one possibility. Another would be a so-called "fire house primary," which is sort of a hybrid process that takes place in an open room, not in voting booths.

But what to do in Florida is more of a challenge. To start with, the Sunshine State is vast, with 4.7 million registered Democrats, and has never held a caucus.

Organizing one from scratch would almost certainly be a disaster in a state whose name is already synonymous with electoral fiasco. What's more, it has more than 30,000 overseas military personnel in its voter files. And there are voting rights issues as well, including the need for bilingual ballots.

One possibility that Florida officials are considering is a mail-in vote, similar to the system used in Oregon, to be held in May or early June. The cost of that kind of primary is estimated to be around $5 million to $10 million, which is considerably less than what it would take to hold a traditional state-wide primary.

So for all the hand-wringing, look for a resolution soon. Everyone knows it is in their interest to get this behind them, and it would put to rest some more extreme, legally dubious proposals being thrown around; some Florida state legislators, for instance, have even discussed a bill that would prevent the Democratic presidential nominee from having his or her name on the November ballot if the state's delegates aren't recognized.

What's ironic about the whole controversy is that both states moved their primaries forward in hopes of having more influence in choosing the ultimate nominee. As things turned out for the Democrats, it will be the ones who vote latest — which ultimately may include both Michigan and Florida — that will have the biggest say.


God Bless America and everyone else!
 
Posts: 5534 | Registered: 02-07-2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Power Member
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I have a question to PUSC.
I was wondering what are you going to do if Hillary Clinton wins the elections in November?
Are you going to accept it and learn to live with it, or are you going to move to another country?
I am curious to find out, because this is going to be very interesting.

2grin 2bigear yes


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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While she won't be getting my vote, it will be my duty as an American to support her as President, just as I did for her husband.


God Bless America and everyone else!
 
Posts: 5534 | Registered: 02-07-2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Roll Eyes Big Grin innocent

Do you mind if I ask you one more question?


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Power Member
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Go for it.


God Bless America and everyone else!
 
Posts: 5534 | Registered: 02-07-2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Power Member
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Ok, cool.
You said you voted for Obama in primaries in Virginia, am I correct? And you are a registered republican correct?
So I was wondering if you knew that Obama's voting record is actually the most liberal of all candidates. Much more liberal than Hillary Clinton.
I am not sure if you knew that he voted in favor of abortion, and he voted to raise taxes? Two most contentious issues most republicans disagree on.
So it would seem like you may not be a republican afterall.
On the other hand, it may also be that lately you may have been making all the wrong decisions...
First you voted for Bush, then again for Bush, and for the war at the same time, which turned out to be a wasted vote(s). And now you are voting for someone who dramatically differs with you in their views.
I mean, can you live with the choices you are making, being a staunch republican as you claim to be?
Did you wonder yourself that maybe you are making bad decisions, and maybe you should rethink certain things?
Just wondering. I appreciate your answers to these questions.


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Power Member
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quote:
Originally posted by iperson:
Ok, cool.
You said you voted for Obama in primaries in Virginia, am I correct? And you are a registered republican correct?

I voted for Obama in the primary. No, I'm not a registered Republican like I thought. We don't register by party in Virginia.

So I was wondering if you knew that Obama's voting record is actually the most liberal of all candidates. Much more liberal than Hillary Clinton.
I am not sure if you knew that he voted in favor of abortion, and he voted to raise taxes? Two most contentious issues most republicans disagree on.

I consider Obama to be a very qualified candidate. I will never agree with all platform issues for any candidate. I've discovered I'm more of an Independent than anything else.

So it would seem like you may not be a republican afterall. Big Grin

On the other hand, it may also be that lately you may have been making all the wrong decisions...

we all do this at some point in time.I'm not too good to eat humble pie once in awhile

First you voted for Bush, then again for Bush, and for the war at the same time, which turned out to be a wasted vote(s). And now you are voting for someone who dramatically differs with you in their views.

The Republican party is no longer the same party as the one I affiliated myself with in the past. They no longer represent most of my views.

I mean, can you live with the choices you are making, being a staunch republican as you claim to be?

Yes

Did you wonder yourself that maybe you are making bad decisions, and maybe you should rethink certain things?

I believe I've made some poor voting decisions in the past, but firmly believe I am making the right one this time.

Just wondering. I appreciate your answers to these questions.


You're welcome.


God Bless America and everyone else!
 
Posts: 5534 | Registered: 02-07-2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Power Member
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quote:
No, I'm not a registered Republican like I thought.



Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin


Now we can be friends.


2cheers2


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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As an afterthought..
I do have one more question.... Big Grin

So, you are aware that Obama is pro-choice, as well as pro-tax increase, and a few other liberal views you disagree with, but still you voted for Obama, and if he is the nominee, you will vote again, correct?
Then tell me what could your reasons be for not voting for Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee of the democratic party?
From where I sit, it seems like your views don't quite differ from those of HRC. She also voted for the war... and she is not quite as liberal as Obama.

What gives? Can you explain this?
I mean, am I being helpful? I assure you my intentions are good asking those questions, as my inquiring mind wants to know.

Thank you for hanging in there with me.

scooter


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I need to say, with all due respect, Iperson, I don't base friendships solely on political alignments. I happen to enjoy friendships with many who don't share my political views. My husband and I don't share the same political philosophies. But, in my opinion, differing political views are no grounds for divorce.

I don't want to engage in discussion about Hillary anymore. You already know my views regarding her. We don't need to rehash the debate. I'm not here to bash Hillary or you. I respect your decision as I would expect you to respect mine. We are both rooting for the same party, so I would hope that bridges some of the gap.


God Bless America and everyone else!
 
Posts: 5534 | Registered: 02-07-2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Power Member
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Well, I am not sure I understand your position well enough. All I know is that you think that there should not be the following:
Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.
And that this country is not ready for a woman president. Oh, and that anybody but Hillary Clinton.

Those are all things I got from you on your vote against.
I mean, is that all? It seems those are not good enough for reasons as far as I am concerned.
Let me make this clear- are you going to vote for McCain if Hillary Clinton becomes the democratic nominee?


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Power Member
Picture of ProudUSC
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quote:
Let me make this clear- are you going to vote for McCain if Hillary Clinton becomes the democratic nominee?


No. I will sit this one out if those are the two remaining candidates. That's my final answer.


God Bless America and everyone else!
 
Posts: 5534 | Registered: 02-07-2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Well at least that ProudUSC.
I am sorry you don't want to discuss this topic with me, because we could have arrived at some very interesting points together.

Maybe we could discuss how people in this country, such as yourself, should really be better informed when making such a decision as casting the vote for the president, especially those that didn't make good judgements in previous elections.

Maybe we should think whether all people should be allowed to vote. That maybe there should be an exam in history/politics/civics, sort of like to become a US citizen for immigrants, which would qualify one to participate in elections.

Also, we could talk about whether the democratic party should disallow nonregistered (as democrats) members of this society to be able to cast votes in the primaries.
Thank gawd for superdelegates to weather any malicious intent.

All very interesting things to talk about.

Big Grin


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I think any further discussion should continue after the election, Iperson. I don't want to get into another argument with you. I don't like to attack people for their beliefs, nor do I like being the recipient of attacks.

After the political dust settles, I will welcome a discussion of this nature with you.


God Bless America and everyone else!
 
Posts: 5534 | Registered: 02-07-2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Ajajajaj.. I was hoping you wouldn't take this as an attack, because it isn't.
I am very happy that you don't want to associate yourself with the republican party anymore and that you saw the light, as Hillary expressed it. She btw welcomes all former republicans who saw the light. boat
And I am very glad you are voting for Obama.
I am only concerned whether you are making an informed decision this time, and that you have compared HRC and BO's take on issues in detail, so that you make sure the decision you are making is the best decision for yourself.
I hope that you set aside any bias or any trivial issues such as the chronology of the presidential families, or the perceived/presumed readiness of America to vote for a woman president, or any other silly arguments.
Because casting a vote, even if it is just one of many, does weigh on not only who you are, and what you believe in, but also shines the light on the society.

........
A small note at the end: I do believe secretly that you are more of a Hillary person than you realize.


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Power Member
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quote:
A small note at the end: I do believe secretly that you are more of a Hillary person than you realize.


I can assure you, I am not.


God Bless America and everyone else!
 
Posts: 5534 | Registered: 02-07-2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Power Member
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quote:
Originally posted by ProudUSC:
quote:
A small note at the end: I do believe secretly that you are more of a Hillary person than you realize.


I can assure you, I am not.


And I assure you, you are. You just don't know it. Yet.


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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And now, from Sticky Politics Blog, it's Saturday Night Live!

http://stickypolitics.blogspot.com/2008/03/sticky-saturday-night.html


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Pusc, could I have one more question?

I would like to know why you think Obama's healthcare plan is better than Hillary's. I assume that's what you think, because you have voted for Obama.


I am a proud heart-bleeding tree-hugging latte-sipping urban-dwelling elitist progressive liberal.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 05-18-2006