one down, several to go. Come on, dumkopf...let's hear your rational arguments for supporting illegal immigration......check your facts, $hit for brains.....illegal aliens are like parasites...they take, but put nothing back....

Support illegal immigration!!! Who would support illegal immigration???
I support legal immigration by voting that the laws will be reviewed, overhauled and brought up to par according to world demands. I am voting and speaking against people like you, which blame hardworking (undocumented) individuals for everything that goes wrong in this society

...and BTW..Sauerkraut is spelled this way and Dummkopf is spelled with two M. I bet you've never been off the block and you probably think America is the world!

Don't waste your time Kollerkrot, he's only waiting for his new victim.

On the topic of fat, Someone. LMAO!
I've never seen so many fat people before visiting the US. And I've travelled the globe. In other countries 90% of people are slim and trim.
The US on the other hand, is full of white poor and fat trailer trash. I think you're one of them.

I have probably been to more countries than you could find on a map (23 at last count)...and gosh Iperson, for someone who was going to ignore my postings, you sure keep responding.
I agree that there are a lot of fat people in the US, but, at 5'11'', 165, I don't fall into that category. No doubt many village idiots that marry illegals do shop at 'Big & Bigger' stores...that's why they end up marrying some illegal.

You brag being to many countries and yet a racist in this board. You stand 5'11 and weighs only 165 lbs, what a j e r k. I'm shorter than you but can kick your a s s easily.

quote:

Originally posted by macyuhoo:
You brag being to many countries and yet a racist in this board. You stand 5'11 and weighs only 165 lbs, what a j e r k. I'm shorter than you but can kick your a s s easily.

Macyuhoo, that was such an immature response!

I know I have asked this before, but tell us all, macyuhoo, what 'race' are illegal aliens?

read this, all of you weeping,whining illegal alien supporters...
Illegal Aliens are Not Immigrants

By Citizen Conservative on Jan 13, 07


Those who argue on behalf of illegal aliens and their “rights” often play word games in appealing to the pride of real Americans.



“Immigrants Built America” and “We are all Immigrants” are popular slogans at pro-illegal alien protests and in jargon used by those who favor open borders, regardless of the impact on America’s homeland security, economy, or culture.


What the anti rule-of-law crowd omits is the crucial word “legal,” as in “legal immigrants.” While it’s true that we are all descendants of immigrants, it is not true that our forefathers came to America illegally.


America was not built by illegal aliens!


Migrating to America legally is, and should be, a long, drawn-out procedure meant to protect the interests of American citizens. It involves more than simply jumping a fence and heading north in pursuit of free health care, education, food stamps, and other handouts paid for by U.S. taxpayers.


Legal immigration means enduring rigorous hurdles like background checks to detect a criminal background or possible ties to terrorists; medical examinations to detect diseases still prevalent in third-world nations, but long since eradicated here; proof of financial solvency so as to prevent newcomers from becoming a burden on U.S. taxpayers, and testing for knowledge of American history and English skills.


Those who have jumped the fence into America in order to avoid our immigration checks are not immigrants. Rather, they are illegal aliens, with no claim whatsoever to the welcome mat extended to legal immigrants. Such people do not deserve recognition or sanction by the United States, and should be rounded up and deported as soon as possible, without exception.


Another word game played by pro-illegal aliens is to call these miscreants “undocumented.”


The implication of this term is that the invaders are simply missing a piece of paper or two, probably some unnecessary bureaucratic red tape designed to keep brown people out.


In truth, illegal aliens have invaded our nation, leaving America vulnerable to undetected crime, terrorism, disease, and financial devastation at the hands of people with no legal or moral justification for being here.


Do not be fooled by word games and euphemistic cover-ups. People here illegally are illegal aliens. Period!

quote:

Originally posted by scribbles:
Actually the article doesn't accuse you specifically for having illegal immigrant parents, it says the history of America is filled with illegal immigration. Which means that the America you love today is for a large part a product of illegal immigration. Do you think that part of history has been particularly damaging to the America considering how it is today? And can you clearly distinguish the negative effects of the past illegal immigration on today's society?

Also a question for Someone12. If you believe that a particular illegal immigrant in the US today would be able to simply go home, apply for a US visa and then come back. In what way would it be considerably better comparing to that persons existence in the US today, as an illegal? If you are perceiving a number of negative economical effects from this person, do you believe that these same effects would simply cease to exist if he came to the country legally? And if so, could you elaborate why? If you believe the negative effects would cease to exist upon him becoming legal, you should support legalization as it's going to fix all of these problems at once.

Then again if you believe the problem can't be fixed merely with legal status, it's not really the legality that you find undesirable, but the person itself.

Thus, I could conclude that although you claim to make your point that of opposing to the fact that they are here illegally, the real issue at hand is that you don't wish these people to be in America at all, and don't believe that they could make a positive economical impact.

But the article is playing syemetrics of words and redifining those definitions based on political idealogy. We can look at the "new" defintions of colonialism which is aptly being applied to US trade and oommerce; nevermind that the "new" definition usurps the traditional norms, but creates a connotation exclusively to a o****ry. Can we assume that China is doing the same using the defintion being applied to US trade?

Legally, there was no such thing as "illegal immigration." If you showed up and placed foot on soil, then you were an immigrant. Legal and illegal were connotations to poltical allies or enemies such as a French citizen during Napolean could not reasonably emigrate to the UK or vis versa.

quote:

Originally posted by Someone12:
you morons cannot do basic math....illegals do not pay anywhere close to their "fair share" in taxes....just look at the plight of public schools, underfunded and filled with illegal alien brats...hospitals that shell out millions in care to illegals (last year, Calif blew off $330,000,000 in medical care for illegals...that's a lot of lettuce)
with the majority of illegals being paid under the table, there is nowhere near enough federal and state income taxes being collected....they drive without car insurance and walk away from the disasters they cause without spending a dime....but most of all, these $hitbag$ have shown nothing but contempt and disrespect for our laws, our borders, our nation from the first day they snuck across the river or lied to our immigration officials when they scammed a visa...well screw them....they have NO right to be here...but hey, if you love 'em so much, take a dozen into YOUR house, let them use YOUR car, let them steal YOUR job, let them have their way with YOUR daughter....and let's see your true feelings then..
we have laws and rules for a reason...it is not to reward illegal scumbags.

There is no such thing as "paying your fair share" in taxes. It is a term used in connotation to describe political idealogy on which group should pay more taxes than other groups, usually the "rich." It is a term that has so many different connotations and derivatives that it cannot be easily confined to immigration and taxes. The question is how the government, local, state, or federal, collects revenue from its citizens and entities. It can be direct, indirect, or both. With state and local governments, they use income, property, and sales, while the federal government utililizes income and excise taxes. Generally

Whether illegals are paid under tha table or not is irrelevant. And given that 18% of the underground economy (thats an estimated #1 trillion dollars) shows that US citizens and LPRs also have alot to answer for. That was part of my job.

BTW, name the reoport about California shelling out that much greenbacks. I guess it was $33 million not $330 million in one year.

just check thru google....$33M??? yea, in a month....

I've very quickly gone through some of the provisions of the first bill formally introduced in the Senate dealing with immigration reform.

The bill pretends to add to the grounds of criminal inadmissibility but in reality the addition creates nothing but a conflict between the current and new provisions; there's no new class of criminal covered by the expansion. There's no controlled legalization program, only a guest worker program that "seems" to be available to all immigrants in the U.S. as of Jan. 1st 2007 with a very controversial implementation.

No real reform is presented by this bill, employers will be subject to the same backlogs and obstacles just to hire seasonal labor. There's no significant amendment to the grounds of inadmissibility, only some "indictable" offenses that are already defined under Title 18 and cannot be reconciled. Same old, same old...

Illegals pay property taxes? Maybe some. Isn't that kind of stupid, to pay taxes on a house when you could be deported?

AFAIK, most illegal immigrants rent. You don't pay property taxes when you're renting. Sure, you're lining the pocket of someone who is paying taxes, but those taxes would be due whether or not the land owner has a tenant.

They pay gas tax and spending tax, and that's about all.

And if my ancestors came here illegally? That does not make me illegal. Not to mention that there were no such laws when my ancestors came to this country, but even if there were such laws then, I was born in this land and as such, by law, I am (more than a legal immigrant) A CITIZEN!

I know the trouble of the immigration system, having gone through every step with my wife, and it PISSES ME OFF that lawmakers are concerning themselves with appeasing the masses of illegal immigrants that are already here rather than fixing the broken system.

By law, illegally entering the U.S. or entering legally under false pretenses is grounds not for a warm welcome, but for expulsion and the denial of future applications. No one, being an illegal alien in this country, deserves "squatter's rights." Every one who has acted lawfully has a greater right to be here than every one who has acted unlawfully. But every spot filled here is one less we can admit later. So for all of you who WANT to come to the U.S., understand that the illegal immigrant is every bit as much your opposition as are the laws that restrict immigration.

"Amnesty" or "a path to citizenship" for illegal immigrants is contrary to the law, which rightfully penalizes and restricts from future entrance those who have entered illegally. And with the overflow of illegal immigrants already present and continuing to invade, the desire to ease the system is apparently lacking.

We have to deal with problem #1 first. We can't relax the laws while being flooded with illegal immigrants.

A legalization program should be only incidental, a one-time only measure to clean up the mess after the problem is fixed; it cannot be the goal of any serious effort to attack the issue at hand.

Amnesty alone shouldn't be the goal of the new legislation. I've made it clear that, at least in my opinion, the system should be reformed to provide a comprehensive avenue for family unification, for employers and those intending to work in the U.S. to do so without breaking the law. The current quota restrictions, backlogs and other provisions imposed by law are only contributing to the problem. It's now the view of many in Congress that current law is one main ingredient in the illegal immigration soup.

Congress is not naive to this facts and has the tools to resolve the issue efficiently and permanently. Centuries of legislation verify the fact that the U.S. Congress is the most capable legislative body in the world, that is not the obstacle. The problem is that immigration law involves issues that amount to more than just black-letter law, in fact, it excites the most primitive human emotions. This fact has delayed the implementation of truly effective law, a reality nobody is willing to acknowledge.

However, the "Comprehensive immigration Reform of 2007" includes a very promising word in its title. "To Rationalize". The first initiatives I've seen are aimed to provide some sort of amnesty WITHOUT a substantial change in the law. How disappointing, another amnesty program will result in another cycle of illegal immigration promoting abuse, exploitation and criminal activity. Real and substantial reform is needed, and the obstacles are many however, the U.S. Congress is more than capable of overcoming any and all obstacles and produce what's best for the interests of this great nation.

quote:

Originally posted by Someone12:
actually,mine came over to engage in the civil war, and had paid passage to come to the budding America. My ancestor fought for the North, and was awarded some land for his efforts.
For those of you trying to scam our system, GO HOME!! We don't need you! You have contributed zilch to America and yet you whine for undeserved benefits....eff you...leave.
I support LEGAL immigration, from the outset (i.e., no phony marriages, no phony student to H1b visas, no EWIs followed by a miraculous marriage, like those cows on immigrate2us.net seem to fall for)...earn your way here through honest means, fine with me....scam your way, and I will gladly drive your sorry a$$ to the nearest airport, carry your bags to check-in and wave your illegal butt good-bye!

This statement of yours kind of makes me think that you work for the government.

quote:

Originally posted by enjerth:
Illegals pay property taxes? Maybe some. Isn't that kind of stupid, to pay taxes on a house when you could be deported?

AFAIK, most illegal immigrants rent. You don't pay property taxes when you're renting. Sure, you're lining the pocket of someone who is paying taxes, but those taxes would be due whether or not the land owner has a tenant.

They pay gas tax and spending tax, and that's about all.

And if my ancestors came here illegally? That does not make me illegal. Not to mention that there were no such laws when my ancestors came to this country, but even if there were such laws then, I was born in this land and as such, by law, I am (more than a legal immigrant) A CITIZEN!

I know the trouble of the immigration system, having gone through every step with my wife, and it PISSES ME OFF that lawmakers are concerning themselves with appeasing the masses of illegal immigrants that are already here rather than fixing the broken system.

By law, illegally entering the U.S. or entering legally under false pretenses is grounds not for a warm welcome, but for expulsion and the denial of future applications. No one, being an illegal alien in this country, deserves "squatter's rights." Every one who has acted lawfully has a greater right to be here than every one who has acted unlawfully. But every spot filled here is one less we can admit later. So for all of you who WANT to come to the U.S., understand that the illegal immigrant is every bit as much your opposition as are the laws that restrict immigration.

"Amnesty" or "a path to citizenship" for illegal immigrants is contrary to the law, which rightfully penalizes and restricts from future entrance those who have entered illegally. And with the overflow of illegal immigrants already present and continuing to invade, the desire to ease the system is apparently lacking.

We have to deal with problem #1 first. We can't relax the laws while being flooded with illegal immigrants.

Someone needs to learn about cost accounting. Even if you rent, the renter pays the tax. It is already priced within the rent itself as a fixed cost. The Property owner pays the tax on behalf of the renters. This is the conduit principle in taxation. This is more true if you are renting a house/condo and not an apartment, but the same rule applies.

The illegal immigration system is a by product of a failed immigration system. The disparity of the amount of visas available for foreign workers to the demand of foreign workers contributes to the problem. WE have a large number of foreign workers who are wanting and needing unskilled labor laws. Students who come here to go to school, graduate, and want to stay and work find it difficult to find an employer to sponsor them because of the complexity of the immigration laws. Those who need to come here as refugees or Asylum-seekers, come here illegally first and then adjust to legal status, but the process can take two or three years. And with the new directions, those types of cases have dropped dramatically because of the loose definitions on terrorist or terrorist supporter, including those who helped the US government in the past.

We don't need to argue here that taxes are everywhere, ever seen your phone bill? Most people pay taxes on a daily basis without even knowing it.

Hudson described the problem very accurately, it's mostly a problem of law. Immigration law is not designed to match reality, but mostly a parallel world tainted by personal views and subjective elements. It's nobody's fault, we're all humans, but it's this flawed legislation has created the problem we have today.

Reality is not what you want it to be, but what it is. Has hunger disappeared from the face of the country just because somebody decided to call it "food insecurity"? Again, you can close your eyes to the problem and pretend it isn't there, but sooner or later you're up for a rude awakening. I've seen some Republicans in Congress argue that "every kid in the U.S. can graduate from College debt-free", is that so? So people go into debt to pay for tuitions just because they feel like it? It's been said that, in order to recover, people need to admit to the problems and take steps to fix them. Willful ignorance is not the answer; you may not like what you see, but if you want to fix things you need to be as objective as possible.

The U.S. is one of the nations with the highest per-capita inmate population. Why is that? Is it because everybody is a criminal? No, the answer is the over-criminalization of otherwise harmless conduct. Statutes have become so broad in their application and so technical in their definitions that people commit crimes without even knowing it. Ignorance is no excuse, but that's a presumption that applies to common-law crimes, and these crimes are simple, clearly defined and evil in nature. Who doesn't know stealing is wrong? Who doesn't know assault is wrong?

This is hard enough for a citizen, but what about aliens? Aliens are expected to behave even better than citizens without the knowledge of the law. A person who just arrived in the U.S. is supposed to have complete and absolute knowledge of the Title 18, and every applicable state and local statute. Instead of punishing repeat offenders and those engaged in common-law crimes (where ignorance is actually no excuse) INA penalizes everything but not with fines or probation, but with permanent expulsion. I remember reading a case of an alien who used a controlled substance once, mainly because it was absolutely legal to do so in his native country. The alien was rendered inadmissible because he broke the U.S. law, even when the conduct occurred in a foreign country, where it was completely legal. How in heaven's name is that fair? How come an alien was punished for a "crime" that never occurred? What makes you believe that this person would have violated U.S. law when this person never violated any law at all?

There's also very controversial, and unfair, grounds of inadmissibility, those based on a "reason to believe". Under these grounds, a person can be charged, tried and convicted all in the head of an adjudicator, in violation of due process. But who cares right? It's only aliens. There's been cases of infant children being placed on the "watch lists", cases of mistaken identities, but still, no opportunity is offered to actually rebut these allegations. You're not accusing a person of stealing a magazine from a store, the accusations involve terrorism, violent and despicable conduct of unmeasurable evil.

Unfair disparities and favoritism are also very common. Why is it that a cuban citizen is eligible for all public benefits and immune to most grounds of inadmissibility, able to adjust status as matter of law without any discretionary authority, able to benefit from most state and local programs while at the same time, the immediate family of a U.S. citizen is not? This is offensive, to say the least, to U.S. citizens who must expose their whole lives in a very demeaning manner just t