quote:

Originally posted by Someone12:
my job cannot be 'offshored' - and no illegal immigrant can do my job, under any circumstances.
As to how I choose to write, style-wise, that says more about one's IQ than less....
And, in regards to illegal immigration, its supporters and the actual ones as well, not one of them has been able to provide a rational, logical reason why 12M illegals should be rewarded instead of deported. The usual response from either group attempts to label me or others who do not share any enthusiasm for illegal immigration as 'racist' - but I am not aware that illegal aliens are a race (a fact overlooked 100% of the time by illegals and their supporters)......but no doubt you have the only true logical reason why illegals should be rewarded ahead of everyone playing by our rules???? If so, let's hear it. But if you are about to play that tiresome refrain about 'native Americans were here first' or 'these people are looking for a better life' - well, neither of those shop-worn excuses holds water in today's modern world. It does not address the irresponsibility inherent in every illegal and most of their supporters; it dodges the issue of fairness and responsibility and avoids discussing the economic and educational destruction that illegal immigration causes upon the AMerican taxpayers.

Very bold considering there are very few jobs that can be offshored, legally or voluntarily. Care to take a gander at what jobs that cannot be offshored?

Illegal immigration has caused both positive and negative economic impacts in the US. On the greater whole, illegal immigrants are on par with most Americans who have very little or no exclusive job skills. However, the disparity between Federal payments and state/local payments is also disturbing. In comparison, US citizens who have the same background, education, and lack of specific job skills, you would see similar patters except that the disparity would be more reflected on the federal level, not state.

Finally, you have been very loose in your definition of defining illegal immigrants. YOu have consistently stated, "s to abide and obey all the rules from the outset." By using this gross, broad, and imprecise definition, you can mean anyone who does not obey any US law while an immigrant is considered illegal. This would include almost all immigrant who now come legally. But awarding illegal immigrants should only mean path to US citizenship. A guest worker program would help those who have been here illegally for more than three or five years, along with filing and paying taxes amoung other responsible acts, without a path to citizenship, will help not only the economy locally, it would not create a huge burden logistically with immigration enforcement. This has been the debate for illegal immigrants who are already here. To help stem the tide of future illegal immigrants, reform must come into economic and trade reform to help provide a better chances in the country of origins in Latin America. This will decrease the supply and demand of illegal immigrants wanting to come into the US in the near and far future.

quote:

Originally posted by iperson:
Well well, as soon as I posted my post, I regretted it, knowing you would lie Someone12.
The person you described as yourself would not spend countless hours posting garbage.
Didnt you know managers and highly educated people have no time to post on internet forums?
They have much more important things to take care of than worry about illegal aliens.

The point I was trying to make by asking you your whereabouts is that no middle class person, with high school diploma or even undergraduate college diploma who is not an engineer or a businessman running a million dollar company, able to immigrate to the US legally.
If you fall into this group and were born outside of the US, you have no chance.
There is simply NO legal way to immigrate to the US at the current stage.

I would disagree that there is no legal way to immigrate to the US. Yes, there is a disparity between the number of work visas, temporary or permenant, for foreign workers to emigrate to the US based on demand, but it does not have to be with a million dollar company. If I was a person living in Europe or Asia, I would go to Canada first, either by school or work (much easier and simplier), establish residency, and then get a TN visa to work in the US. Of course, the job has to be on the TN preferred list, the the jobs include most trade and white collor jobs. Just my two cents.

Hudson, there are very limited numbers of visas but they are non immigrant visas. The step from a non immigrant working visa to permanent residency is even wider than the number of visas available to foreigners. What percentage of those that do get H1 visas and are not fired in the meantime get permanent residency?
The chances are next to zero dear.
And thanks for your tips. Unrealistic in many cases.

quote:

Originally posted by iperson:
Hudson, there are very limited numbers of visas but they are non immigrant visas. The step from a non immigrant working visa to permanent residency is even wider than the number of visas available to foreigners. What percentage of those that do get H1 visas and are not fired in the meantime get permanent residency?
The chances are next to zero dear.
And thanks for your tips. Unrealistic in many cases.

There are immigrant visas based on employment. They are the EB visa; howver the time frame for processing is at least a couple of years. They are also job specific. The time frame become unrealistic from a business perspective given the alternative of a shorter processing time with non-immigrant visas. The scenario I gave you is more common than you think. Typically immigrants from Hong Kong, Korea, Japan, Western Europe, and India will go to Canada to go to school or work temporarily. While there, they will establish residence in Canada and then apply for a visa to the US. And because Canada has a preference with US immigration, it is easier to then emigrate from Canada to the US rather than emigrate from country of origin to the US.

Granted, the number of visas now available is causing havoc in the employment marketplace, specifically where job skills from foreign workers are drastically needed. However, adjusting to LPR based on employment has remained constant in the last decade in terms of the number of visas, but the number of applications has increased. You also see this with family based LPR petitions. While I agree that the number of visa allowed needs to be increased, I cannot agree that it is netx to impossible to emigrate. The processing times need to be addressed and drastically reduced to a more reasonable time frame, like six months max.

Hudson, I understand there is the legal way but in reality it is almost unattainable. You see the letter of the law and think it's fair, but in reality the law does not apply to most people. Applications are delayed, lost, not approved, all on purpose, to limit immigration. There is no "fair" for immigrants. They are not treated equally with US citizens.
Getting permanent residence is decided on whether the profession is sought after and needed (engineers, college professors, scientists, PhDs, etc). So the eligibility exists for all equally as the letter of the law, but not in reality. I don't expect you to believe this because of your different world view.

And I think in order to apply for an immigrant visa from Canada, you have to be Canadian resident. And that takes a long time.

what planet are you on? One can apply to be a 'landed immigrant' of Canada without being a Canadian resident.
We have certain laws and rules in place regarding immigrating to the US for a reason....to protect the citizenry and economy of the United States of America, not to pander to a bunch of wannabees who don't want to obey our laws or work hard to meet certain qualifications.
It's just too bad if the whole wide world cannot immigrate to America....and if they did, where are they supposed to live and work? Where is the electricity and water supposed to come from? Oops...no one thinks of the infrastructure issues if 6B people showed up at our doorstep -- instead, the uninformed want to whine about our 'unfair' laws....unfair to whom? America's first and foremost concern is for the welfare and well-being of her citizens, not a bunch of law breaking whining types living outside our borders.....
each year Congress allows about 65,000 H1b workers, 65,000 unskilled workers (H2B), an unlimited number of foreign students (last year averaging about 600,000) an unlimited number of marriages to American citizens (about 300,000 last year), nearly 500,000 immigrant visas in various categories....and this isn't enough??????????? Here's $5...go buy a clue.

help

quote:

Originally posted by iperson:
Hudson, I understand there is the legal way but in reality it is almost unattainable. You see the letter of the law and think it's fair, but in reality the law does not apply to most people. Applications are delayed, lost, not approved, all on purpose, to limit immigration. There is no "fair" for immigrants. They are not treated equally with US citizens.
Getting permanent residence is decided on whether the profession is sought after and needed (engineers, college professors, scientists, PhDs, etc). So the eligibility exists for all equally as the letter of the law, but not in reality. I don't expect you to believe this because of your different world view.

And I think in order to apply for an immigrant visa from Canada, you have to be Canadian resident. And that takes a long time.

I think you are confusing the long processing times with how one can come here legally. If we keep the same number of visas being issued in the US the same, but reduce drastically the processing time from two years down to six months, you might have a different opinion. I also believe that H visa quotas needs to be increased to about 100k for both skilled and unskilled. But I also think that the types of visas that can be issued needs to be drastically reorganized and made more simplistic as well.

quote:

I think you are confusing the long processing times with how one can come here legally.

I think you are. I was talking about immigrating, not coming over to study or to work on a type of a visa. These have nothing to do with immigration.
Not in the current system anyhow, not practically.

You are right Someone12 saying the US has the right to say who should come here and who shouldn't as any sovereign country does, and regulate the population.
But then don't complain about people coming here illegally if you don't allow a reasonable number of people coming here legally. Sixty thousand visas are being filled in the first two weeks. The chances are better of winning the lottery.

Since the ancient times there has been the famous conflict between the reality of life and the letter of law. Read the Antigone by Sophocles (sp).
And life is stronger and moral values are on the side of life. This is the reason American people decided to out Tancredo and alike, because down deep the American nation is made up of good people.
(Hudson, don't start rehashing the past now- what I said or didn't say, ok?)

once again, for the learning impaired, the US of A does not OWE anyone the right or privilege to immigrate to the US....we cannot allow everyone who wants to come here to do so....it would ruin our country overnight. It's just too bad if some people cannot immigrate here,,,not everyone can fly a plane either, or do you think anyone should be allowed to do so, just to be "fair?" (what happens when the plane crashes?) Tancredo is an American hero..he has the right focus on illegal immigration...eliminate it once and for all.

Very strong argument between iperson and hudson, but really hudson there is no way to immigrate to the US legally.. the only ways to immigrate are:
- through a family member (good luck)
- investment ( then why the **** would i be immigrating if i had all that money)
- marriage ( yea bet a lot of these are phony )
- DV lottery (1 in a million chance? )
- employment (call up uscis and ask about the backlog)

point is there is simply no way of immigrating to the US and the routes available are both time consuming, expensive and risky ( even with the wait time you may still be denied ). On top of that, i think the US has also allowed a lot of illegal immigration, that it has also led to a further breakdown of the system. The number of skilled worker visas are limited but some javier from mexico can jump the border, work illegally anyway and marry his cousin? And what about the issue of employers? Those 65,000 visas are given mostly to indians so cubicles can be filled with cheap labor, reducing cost and driving profit. And then to make it worse, those with non-immigrant visas like iperson said have a snowball's chance in hell of changing their status to become immigrants. No i dont think so, there is no legal way imo. There are ways available but if you know enough immigrants, the best path is simply to marry a citizen and move on.

As for you Someone12,

where is the electricity coming from? where will they live and work? when those 600,000 students came over to the US, instantly each one put in at least 20k just for tuition into the system, each and every student in the US outpays an American student by 3x and they can only work on campus! take your 5 bucks and buy a brain.

Anti-US sentiment is growing especially with Saddam's execution. Saddam was mocked by his enemies before he breath his last. When asked by one media reporter if the US was partly answerable to the treatment Saddam received before his death or if he received a fair trial, Bush didn't answer, turned his back and walked away.

K-Solomon: you are a moron...600,000 students are not going to be able to pay the electric bills of 2B people should they all be allowed to come to America unrestricted.
Ask yourself (or have someone else do, since you are too ignorant to figure out the question) where billions of people would live and work in the US if allowed to come here without much of a guideline? Where? Our cities would become gigantic trash dumps, our water supply ruined, and what about jobs???? Are we going to cut each other's grass? Have someone reread my postings to you (and translate the big words)...the US of A cannot possibly absor the entire world, dufus.
we have more than enough legal routes to immigrate here, with controls to PROTECT our economy and lifestyle....if you disagree, move to another country and see what life is like in some developing third world kraphole.

quote:

Originally posted by iperson:
I think you are. I was talking about immigrating, not coming over to study or to work on a type of a visa. These have nothing to do with immigration.
Not in the current system anyhow, not practically.

You are right Someone12 saying the US has the right to say who should come here and who shouldn't as any sovereign country does, and regulate the population.
But then don't complain about people coming here illegally if you don't allow a reasonable number of people coming here legally. Sixty thousand visas are being filled in the first two weeks. The chances are better of winning the lottery.

Since the ancient times there has been the famous conflict between the reality of life and the letter of law. Read the Antigone by Sophocles (sp).
And life is stronger and moral values are on the side of life. This is the reason American people decided to out Tancredo and alike, because down deep the American nation is made up of good people.
(Hudson, don't start rehashing the past now- what I said or didn't say, ok?)

I still think you are. Whether one is coming here for studying, employment, family, assylee, refugee, etc with the exception of the visitor/business visas, it is immigration because the immigrant is going to stay longer than just "visiting." However, if we allow the same number of visas for all the categories, but decrease the processing times to more reasonable expectations, you would not be so hesitant to state "there is no legal way." To make that statement, you are not implying the processing times are unreasonable, but you are implying that no matter which visa one wants to obtain, the law is very restrictive on the average petitioner. That is not simply the case.

However and as stated before, there is a disparity between certain visas being issued and the demand for those visas being applied by the petitioner. Yet there are plenty of visas for those not in high demand. That is where the problem lies as well as the processing times for permenant resident, employment visas, etc. But the other problem is that there is too many vias types for the different categories. We will nine different types of nonimmigrant worker visas, four different types of student visas, etc. The process and application needs to be streamlined, but not at the expense of lowering the standards which one can apply.

Since you brought up the elections, I will also have to disagree with you on your analysis. Personally there were several reasons why. First and foremost, the Hispanics left the Republican party and voted for Democrats because of the harsh anti-immigration stance by certain members. Keep in mind that most Hispanics consider themselves socially conservative, that is anti-abortion, pro-marriage etc. This goes in direct contrast with the DNC platform of pro-abortion, pro *** marriage, etc. Second, The Republican leadership forgot why they party obtained the majority in the first place. In truth, they forgot the "Contract with America" and did not fulfill certain promises made. Now it the Democrats turn and more than likely will do the same as the Republican party. Third, there was some element of change with US foreign policy. But even Democrats criticized the ISG as either not going far enough or calling them the Iraq Surrender Group. Finally, the Democrats were united in defeating the Republicans at any cost. Even Moderate Republicans lost to more liberal democrats. Rep Henry Bonilla to Ciro Rodriquez in San Antonio, Jim Webb to Sen Ray Allen, etc. Then you have Pelosi wanting Rep Murtha as Majority Leader. Instead the Democratic Caucus was wise and chose Rep Hoyer, who is very respected on both sides of the aisle. But the future in the Democratic Party is Barak Obama, not Kucinich, Gore, Clinton, Kerry, Edwards, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by K_Solomon:
Very strong argument between iperson and hudson, but really hudson there is no way to immigrate to the US legally.. the only ways to immigrate are:
- through a family member (good luck)
- investment ( then why the **** would i be immigrating if i had all that money)
- marriage ( yea bet a lot of these are phony )
- DV lottery (1 in a million chance? )
- employment (call up uscis and ask about the backlog)

Well, you forgot assylee and refugee status as way to immigrate, K. So, lets go over the different categories, shall we:
Family Member Well, internet dating and marriage are very popular given how available the internet really is. Furthemore, there are over 6 million US expats residing outside the US which can be easier for finding a relationship, but more often than not, there is a whole host of dating services available on the internet for both domestic and international seekers.
DV lottery Depends on where you live. YOu have a much better chance if you are living in certain parts of Europe than if you are living in South America or Asia. But there are also certain countries that are excluded. The DV Lottery program is, in essence, the affirmative action program of immigration. It makes sure that immigrants are represented fairly and equitably in the immigration process.
investment The US has one of the lowest federal tax incidences in the entire world, not to mention its central banking system is one of the strongest in the world despite the falling of the dollar. With the transparency laws able to make sure no conflict of interest exists between significant parties, one of the safest banking systems in the world (even with more riskier investments), and a lower tax rate compared to the home country (including income tax treaties), it is a valuable option for the wealthy of Europe and Asia to utilize.
employment There are nine different temporary work visas and six different permenant work visas available to a potential immigrant. However, the processing times do discourage both potential immigrant and employer at great costs. That is why it is cheaper for American businesses to move operations overseas and employ the potential immigrant in their home country and not in the US.

quote:

point is there is simply no way of immigrating to the US and the routes available are both time consuming, expensive and risky ( even with the wait time you may still be denied ). On top of that, i think the US has also allowed a lot of illegal immigration, that it has also led to a further breakdown of the system. The number of skilled worker visas are limited but some javier from mexico can jump the border, work illegally anyway and marry his cousin? And what about the issue of employers? Those 65,000 visas are given mostly to indians so cubicles can be filled with cheap labor, reducing cost and driving profit. And then to make it worse, those with non-immigrant visas like iperson said have a snowball's chance in hell of changing their status to become immigrants. No i dont think so, there is no legal way imo. There are ways available but if you know enough immigrants, the best path is simply to marry a citizen and move on.

Again, there is a disparity with the H visa quotas with that of demand by the workplace and it has to be rectified. However, it does not show "there is no legal way" to immigrate. On the contrary, once employed in the US on a temporary work visa, it is easy to adjust status by either marrying a USC (very likely without the risks of internet dating) or employed for at least three years to obtain LPR status. And if one is already here on a student vias, the potential employee and employer have programs to help with one becoming a temporary worker, if one chooses to remain in the US.

quote:

where is the electricity coming from? where will they live and work? when those 600,000 students came over to the US, instantly each one put in at least 20k just for tuition into the system, each and every student in the US outpays an American student by 3x and they can only work on campus! take your 5 bucks and buy a brain.

Most students return to their country of origin, K. When i was in college, I was a student counselor with the international office at my alma mater which about 60%-65% went back home for family reasons, governmental obligations, or employment. The reamining stayed here to work or got married. There were a few who stayed because of political or religios turmoil back home which they applied for assylee or refugee status. However, universities make money off non-resident students and are not subsidized by the taxes of that state, if it is a public university. With Private universities, schools are charging for the limited space available. Furthemroe, if one can demostrate economic hardship or if it is in the course of their studies, foreign students can work off campus but must maintain the full course load. And finally, I have found in my experience that most foreign students are more apt at applying for scholarships and fellowships than their US counterparts who want the money without the responsibility, but that is my experience though.

quote:

Most immigrants, myself included, love their origin countries equally or more than America. I don't think America will ever be a true home to me. I think of my home as my country where I was born.

You might love your origin country equally or more IPerson, but you are living here in the USA, aren't you? So am I. I love my country of origin but this is the land that has given me the opportunity and I wouldn't want to go back to my country and live there, yet I love it. So, I think you are wrong. This country can't handle all the people if the borders were open. You need a reality check. Think about what you're saying. You're a perfect example of an immigrant that is living here and not in her country of origin. Most immigrants will tell you that they only want to visit their country but they want to come right back here.
You seen young and naive, but is trying to act much older and wiser then you actually are.

Hi CuriousBob...

If you're so curious, I don't suggest the USA opens its borders wide, silly. That is unrealistic, at this stage of human evolution. I don't want to open my country's borders either.

I sugge