Hi all ,

As I hav ebeen mentioning from time to time ,that F2B category has been given least preferance taking into account the relationship a son/daughter shares with their parents.It is so inhumane to expect children of green card holders to wait for8-10 years and saty unmarried all along.What do the law makers think ??..They have been so unkind with this category,that it has seperated the families and have made the careers and lives of thousands of children(here i refer them to be children even if they are 32 years of age,because they have to remain unmarried ,to fufill the conditions of F2B).
Recently there has been a law ( CSPA act) that protects the children from aging out and the children will still get visa along with their parents even if they cross 21). BUTTTTTTTT......this law has not been made retroactive...I ask why..........
Are we people who have been waiting for the past 6-8 years committed anything wrong that we are being punished like that.????????
I can suggest some solutions which we all can build upon.

1) The US govt should pass a law that CSPA should be made retroactive and all those who have been waiting till 2002(the year when CSPA was passed) should be given visas under F2B.

2) Or the rule that a person should remain unmarried till his/her petiotion becomes current should be abolished.Because keeping this rule means the USA denies us the chance to migrate there,as there is a limit to remaining unmarried.DO they expect the person to stay unmarried till age of 35 years?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is inhumane.

3) I think the US govt encorages people staying illegaly in usa,as they from time to time give them green cards under ammestey plans.I ask why should those illegal people be given visas on our account,because we people have been waiting patiently for years now.

I think Its high time that something is done in this matter and looked into.According to me we all should press for CSPA becoming retroactive,which will make our dates current.


any other ideas are welcome.But i think more and more people need to join in in our endevour to get justice,because I think justice delayed is justice denied.

[This message was edited by ralhan on February 27, 2004 at 07:14 PM.]

[This message was edited by ralhan on February 27, 2004 at 07:21 PM.]

[This message was edited by ralhan on March 09, 2004 at 07:05 PM.]

[This message was edited by ralhan on March 21, 2004 at 06:45 PM.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ralhan,

Ralhan--There is no reason at all why adult sons and daughters have to be admitted at all under their parents' sponsorship. In fact, it's a major failing of our immigration system that we allow extended families (other than parents and minor children) to be sponsored. The long delays you are experiencing are precisely because we allow sponsorship of adult children, parents, and sisters and brothers with their families. If you have a basis on your own to immigrate (e.g. work sponsorship), fine. If not, be thankful that you have a chance to do it at all, even if you have a long wait.

I mostly agree with AliBA, except when it comes to cases such as mine. Just to explain, my father was going through the I-485 process for my mother, my younger sister and I. His employer's attorneys, who were not immigration attorneys, did not anticipate that I would age out (that I would turn 21) right before filing the I-485. When that happened, I was left out on my own. This situation has happened to many children of foreign employees who are adjusting and whose lawyers do not know about the age-out procedures. Therefore, an I-130 was immediately filed on my behalf, which put me in category F2B, and, in the meantime, I became a professional student in F-1 status, with the goal of staying in school as long as possible, hoping that either my priority date would become current or that my father, by gaining U.S. citizenship, could bump me up. Fortunately, I met and married a U.S. citizen and my case was ultimately resolved (and now I have a lot of schooling!). However, had I not gotten married, I would have had to return to my native country, where I only have elderly relatives, no job connections, no housing, etc. Therefore, in these instances I can see how it would be a great idea to ensure that people who age out could still be grandfathered in with their parents' I-485 applications as derivative beneficiaries.

Ralhan:
I agree with most of what you say, and NYCImmParalegal has described what must be a very common situation.

Our children were under 21 at the time my husband applied for his I-140, but aged out. (Mainly due to an incompetent lawyer). Our children returned to our home country as we did not have the resources to keep them all at university and ironically believed that "the legal way was the only way". We filed I-130's never imagining the length of time it would take for the priority date to become current. After all, if a receipt notice says that "this type of case usually takes 180 days to process", why should you think that 6 years later you will still be waiting?

We are still no closer to having our children with us, but if they had stayed here illegally they would probably have qualified for the Life Act. We have applied forour citizenship, but that too is taking forever.

Actually I think all CIS forms should carry a warning similar to those found on cigarette packets. Maybe something along the lines of:
"File this application at your own risk. By doing so you are likely to be subjected to great financial hardship, separation from family for long periods, ridicule and insults from those who have no understanding of your situation." etc. etc.

I wonder, if confronted with this fact, does USCIS has any valid reason not to allow "grandfathering" for those children who would age-out?

As I said before--bureaucratic delays such as you experienced are in large part due to our overly generous policy on family reunification, which allows other than nuclear family to apply for green cards, and (as I didn't mention before) attempts at legalizing illegal aliens. As long as we continue to do both, the warning you suggest is appropriate.

Marmaduk--Unlike other cultures, the US considers "children" to be adults at age 18, and the usual expectation is that they're on their own either then, or after college (usually about age 21). In other words, they're adults then. Nor do we have the same emphasis on family ties as other countries. [In Turkey, the norm seems to be you live at home until you marry, even if it's in your 30s.] Why "grandfather" in adults, just because mom and dad managed to get green cards? The "kids" are off starting their own family units, even if it's only a household of one. If the adult "kids" don't have the skills and abilities to get their own green cards, why should we admit them?

I am glad that many people have come out in our case's support.But frankly I don't aggree with aliba's views.What i had been emphasising all along is that now that the govt has passed the CSPA law,so is it that now the children above 21 dont become adults in the eyes of law..as termed by aliba!!!!!What an irony..If this rule can benefit the children now .so what crime have the children commited who have been waiting since 6-7 years .Why should they be made to wait for3-4 years more.Why should not they be covered under CSPA.??
And I am sorry to say your govt rewards those who do illegal things to go to usa and punishes the ones who wait patiently for years to get united with their families,by passing such laws(CSPA).......

Based on your reasoning Aliba, then why admit parents of USC and give them higher preferences than children over 21? Both are adult, and both haven't been contested to show ability to get GC on their own.

I fully aggre with marmaduk.I have always felt that american law makers have a partial sight or a 2 dimentional view of any thing.They give prefrances to a lot of categories of people who are adults .They why the hell do they have this in the law that the children have to remain unmarried no matter for how long...to remain in f2b category...IT REALLY SUCKS........

It's not "my" reasoning--simply the way we view children here in the U.S.

While not revering our parents, we do look out for them and can understand other people wanting to do the same. The assumption being that elderly parents aren't and shouldn't have to be in the workforce. Else why would we have social security? Of course, from what I've heard, we've been making it tougher for people to bring over their parents because so many were applying for SSI.

Ralhan--You seem to think that the "government" is conspiring to prevent you guys from getting a green card, when it's nothing of the sort. The problem is not the law per se, but the system used to execute it. If applications were being processed speedily, as they should be, you guys wouldn't be aging out, would you?
As I have said twice already, you are caught in a bureaucracy that is overwhelmed on the one hand by applications (a backlog of 4 million or so) and on the other by "new" programs for "legalizing" people who are here illegally. A problem that did not exist as recently as the early 1990s. Just "giving" all you people who are waiting (and anyone you choose to marry) status would be a logistical and security nightmare, would involve creating a whole new set of rules and procedures (further delaying processing of other applications) and come to that, why should you get preference over other categories?

Furthermore, some of you (you included) have had your problems brought on by using attorneys who were not familiar with the system such as it is, in one case mentioned on this board, were not even immigration attorneys. That is YOUR (or your parents) fault, not the government's.

Ralhan--I doubt the reason you're not included in CSPA is out of any concern about lack of money or processing capability on the part of Congress. The above is just my view of why we don't need yet another program intended to "mend" part of a broken immigration system--and which ends up making it yet slower and more complicated. [I don't like programs such as 245i and TPS for the same reason--they're patches on a broken system, and further delay processing for people who follow the rules.]

More than likely, you're not included in CSPA for some very arbitrary reason--the Congressmen who drafted the bill didn't think of it, and there was no one who was lobbying them for it.
As you've so rightly pointed out, Congress is good at giving benefits to illegal aliens (lots of interests lobbying for them) but not at all good about making it easier for legal aliens.

I was wrong. Per today's (Feb. 11, 2004) Washington Post, p. B1, the backlog is at 6 million and rising.

Maybe we should do as some people suggest, and just stop further immigration for awhile.

Thanx aliBA for your sugesstive views on immigration.We all affected by this law (cspa) or I should say not covered by the law are trying to raise our issue and get it noticed in the eyes of those law makers......

anyway thx for ur comments.......

Ralhan and Marmaduk:

You both have raised good points and I would certainly support any action for the CSPA to be retroactive (within reason, obviously). I also consider it unfair to expect children who "aged out" to remain unmarried. Their priority date should be "grandfathered" so they can at least benefit when the parents become citizens.

Aliba - do you have children? It seems unlikely. To quote you:
"the US considers "children" to be adults at age 18, and the usual expectation is that they're on their own either then, or after college (usually about age 21). In other words, they're adults then."
While children may become officially become "adults" at the age of 18, they never stop being their parents "children". I certainly don't believe that Americans lose the desire to interact freely with their children once they leave home.

Are immigrants abnormal for wanting their children to be free to make regular visits to their parents home and vice versa? Do Americans not want to spend time with adult children, watch their grandchildren grow up, be actively involved in their lives, be present for birthday's and special occasions? Is it not normal for American families to gather together in times of trouble, illness or death? All the American families I know value family ties.

I agree that illegal immigrants are a huge problem, and they certainly make life harder for those who have tried to do things the legal way. However I can also understand how an impossible immigration system can leave people feeling frustrated and that they have no choice but to become illegal.

Aliba, you also seem to overlook the fact that many immigrants contribute a great deal to the USA, and are not leeches. Legal immigrants pay taxes, invest their "life savings" and in many instances create jobs for Americans.

Fairplay--I can certainly understand parents wanting to be able to see their children. But does this require that the adult children immigrate to the U.S.? Particularly if the only basis the children have is their family relationship? And, if said adult children have established their own families? Come to that, if "family" is so important, perhaps the parents shouldn't have chosen to immigrate to the U.S. We are constantly being told that we should be more open to immigrants because it's a "global" world, with ease of travel and communication--if that's so, then immigrants shouldn't have any need to bring all and sundry of their family over.

As for the contributions of immigrants, I don't deny them. What I object to is the implicit assumption that we have to accept any and all who want to come here, without any concern as to the contribution individual immigrants will make. It's one thing to say that "immigrants" benefit society--it's quite another to say that all immigrants do, or even contribute at all.

Concerning illegal immigration, sure people get frustrated and become illegal--which only compounds the problems with the immigration system. And the more who become illegal, the more of a problem we have with the system, and the more who choose to become illegal... The cycle has to end somewhere, or we effectively have open borders, which is not fiscally, culturally, or politicially desirable or feasible--if we wish to remain a country, and if we wish to maintain the freedoms and standard of living that have made us such an attraction. To repeat the hackneyed warning, look at the fiscal mess two of our immigrant-heavy states, California and Texas, are in, in part because of social services needed by both legal and illegal immigrants. Consider a federal dificit over $500 billion and growing, as projected and probably underestimated by this administration. Are the states going to be able to count on the federal gov't. for more money for education, medical care, prisons, housing, etc. needed by populations growing due to immigration? You can bet not.

By the way, Fairplay--while I don't have children, I do call MY mother every night (we live more than 600 miles apart) and e-mail her from work every morning. Wonderful thing, the telephone. I also have extended visits with her and other members of my family twice a year, and they come to visit me. Did much the same when I lived overseas for several years--just not as often.

Aliba:

You are fortunate. My mother, who passed away 2 months ago, was an American citizen. Living here, I was able to spend alot of time with her in her final months. Unfortunately, my children, while they did call her as often as they could afford, were not even able to attend her funeral. Nor were they able to attend that of their grandfather who passed away 9 months earlier. Not only are international airfares extremely expensive, but American Consulates refuse to issue visitor visas once they know you have close relatives living in the USA. Count your blessings.

Fairplay--I'm sorry to hear about your mother. Mine's in her 80s, and it's nice to be on the same continent.

I'm sure you're aware that the reason your children were unable to get visas is because so many people do overstay that the embassies just assume everyone will. If a system for tracking entries and exits were in place, then there would be no need to assume this, and penalize people who have legitimate reasons for wanting to be here. This includes businesspeople and students, too.