quote:

Originally posted by WorkingMan:
ProudUSC,
Exactly what makes you believe I haven't done my research? I have been living with this stuff most of my life. I read ... and not just one source or sources that support my argument, as so many are prone to do. I ask questions. I pay attention to what is going on around me.
What did you research that made you change your mind?

Never mind, S12. I found the question. Working man, I am not pro-illegal immigration by any means. If you'll go back and read my early posts, you'll see how I started on this board (and I'm ashamed of my behavior). I don't like it anymore than you do. I have read about many cases where the immigrant was brought here by a USC, the paperwork was never filed, the USC leaves them in an illegal status - what's okay about that?

I am no expert by any means on immigration. My family has been in this country since the 1800's, so for all intents and purposes, I don't have a need to know everything. But, after visiting this board and reading articles on the web, newpapers, etc., I decided I should become more informed about this and other important issues facing this nation. I want to be an informed voter in 2008. I usually don't go outside my party when voting, but I am not happy with the current status of this country. So, if I find a candidate in another party that more closely represents my ideals, then I'll cross the line!

What bothers me most on this forum is the immigrant bashing that goes on. People come here for help. And we have the same tired responses from a few self-righteous people who think it's okay to call people names - basically using playground behavior if you ask me. They are even posting hateful rants to people who haven't yet arrived here? People in other countries. What does that say about the US? Centainly not the image I want to extend to others around the world.

So, no I am not pro-illegal immigration. But I am also not going to post anymore negative rants to those illegals who come here for help. It's not the right thing to do.

Thanks ProudUSC. I haven't seen any of the rants or behavior that you speak of on your part. I commend you for ridding yourself of that behavior, and I wish more would look at the real issues and do the same. It isn't something you will see me doing. What you will see me doing is fighting against illegal immigration. I know people want better lives, and we need to change our policies to develop attainable paths for legal immigration. The current administration seems to want to make it more difficult ... except for those who manage to sneak in illegally before his proposals go into effect. I hope that people will stop playing the race card and end the bigotry and ignorance on both sides of the issue.
I will not pull any punches or sugar coat the negative impact illegal immigrants are having on the working class of this country. Nor will I ignore the fact that a large number of these illegals are knowingly and willingly exploiting a flawed system. Our system has problems, and we have to fix it. That being said, we have to start somewhere and I see no better place than with people who are not even citizens.

Workingman: I joined this forum ahead of ProudUSC by a few days and I can confirm what she said.

You see, we have similar positions on the issue so to speak. In very strong terms, I personally hate illegal immigration and illegal immigrants. But I lived, grew and learned about the HUMANITY of it all before I pass sweeping judgments.

I have a neighbor, a family of four, a single mother with three kids. She is on an H-1B visa and a Laborcert that languished for many years in one of DOL's backlog centers. It's certified now but her two elder kids have long aged out (over 21) to be her dependents.

Both kids are now in a community college, out of status, working on the side illegally here and there, driving with expired licenses, with no readily available path to fix their status.

The LEGAL thing for me to do is to advise the kids to go back to their country, but MORALLY I can't do that because I'm not one for tearing a family apart, small as it is.

This is just one example but enough to drive a point - that not all illegal immigrants are out there to cause us harm by malicious intent.

I agree, some illegals take advantage of this mess. But that's part of human nature. Much like the longer the rope, the wider the cow will graze.

But I can forgive those who crowd our hospitals and schools than those who traffic drugs and criminals across our borders and make blood money to line the pockets of syndicates big time. These elements, my friend, mean us real harm.

For me the illegal immigration crisis is not the problem by itself, but it's a symptom of a much graver disease.

Address the symptoms, not the disease, and we'll just go round and round on an endless circle.

Or, hate the illegal immigrants, not what's causing their growing statistics, redounds to supporting what's causing it, the status quo, that makes one an illegal immigration supporter by default.

And yes, that's promoting the current AMNESTY in our midst in disguise.

(Just a thought - take it or leave it).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rough Neighbor,

I never said this was a one dimensional issue, but you have to start somewhere. Honestly the first place would be firing ALL of the politicians in office for their inaction.
As for tearing families apart, I always have to look back on the fact that this was a choice these people made. In many cases, and trust me I have done my research, these families are started on this side of the border specifically because of our anchor baby laws and the humanitarian nature of our people. If we are concerned about tearing apart families, then we need to repeal the anchor baby statutes, that way the whole family is of illegal status and they all go back. That would put a stop to some of it. I know that makes me sound cruel, but the other direction is to say that once a baby is born here the entire extended family is allowed over the border.
What if we were bordered on all sides by nations with social problem (with international travel as easy as it is we aren't far from this). Would we need to let anyone stay who got in?

I apologize if I came to mean that way. I never said that you said the issue is one dimensional, what I said was that our points of view coincide for the most part. We just disagree somewhere on the humanity side. I agree we have to start somewhere, but where? Of course, where it's supposed to be, the law-making body of the land - it's far from perfect but that's the best in the world. That what consists this body are politicians is unfortunate, but we have to live with that. We've got no choice, have we? No, we can't fire them all.

The anchor baby phenomenon, to me, is a contradiction in terms because the "chain migration" consequential to them takes forever and very minimal per capita: both parents and alien spouse? Siblings also but it takes place on the eve of eternity. But that they attract nuclear family migration (mostly illegally) that further results to straining of government resources is very unfortunate.

But the real culprits nowadays are the ANCHOR fathers or mothers who come here as tourists, marry their relatives or friends, then the USC spouse petitions for his/her three, six, alien stepchildren whose visas are readily available and upon landing being released to the labor pool unregulated.

But, yes, this anchor baby topic has been accounting for so much boisterous sound bytes every time immigration is discussed, as if it's that easy to overturn - as if it's not enshrined on the most fundamental law of the US, the Constitution, and that, indeed, it's so easy to abuse. Elvira Arellano and her anchor baby, Saul, is the most sensational case in point.

Whew! It's not easy indeed. It's easier to fathom who the next American Idol would be!!!

(Just a flimsy thought – take it or leave it).

Let's all just stay home then.

This bill is a give away to the illegals at the expense of legal immigrants who are caught in the retrogression backlogs at USCIS for the last 6 years. I guess numbers always matter....those trying to immigrate legally to the country, law abiding tax paying people(not marching in the streets) have been taken for a ride in this bill. The number of visas available for high skilled immigrants is 140,000 a year with a hard country cap of 7%. Also since there is no recapturing of unused visas from countries who did not fill up the quota has created high backlogs for people(legal) of certain countries. Under the current system the visas for the same are being reduced to 90,000 and all the rest are for illegal immigrants. So people who are already stuck in backlogs for the last 6 years will have to wait another 5 years as that is the time allotted to clear the backlogs. So those who have already applied legally and whose cases do not clear in the time being will have to restart the process.Also those who have already applied after May 2005 will have to pay up and re-apply again under the new system.
For more information on the plight of the legal immigrant please visit www.immigrationvoice.org and you will see more detailed analysis on how the legal people have been screwed in this bill.
No wonder there is no takers for legal immigration and the entire system is a mess since there is no incentive to do so.

The "anchor baby" scheme is largely a total myth, it DOESN'T exist people! Why? Becuase although the baby born here to illegals is a U.S. citizen, Mom and Dad would, in the common scenario, have entered without inspection and therefore be illigible to receive adjustment of status in the U.S. Also, the child can't file a petition for their parents until they are 21 years of age. So, the kid turns 21, files an I-130, and Mom and Dad have been here illegally for 22+ years. Now they have to leave to try to obtain a visa at the U.S. Consulate back home. Oops, when they set foot outside the U.S., they are subject automatically to a 10 year bar to re-entry.

There is a waiver they can seek to this, but you'd better believe that most who would seek it will never get it.

So, it is patently false that an illegal can just get a green card by having a child here. They would still have two decades of waiting to do, and then still be required to leave and ask for a waiver that will very likely be denied.

SonofMichael
Frequent Member
Posted May 21, 9:15 AM Hide Post
Where is your humanity? These people are human beings just like me and you !!! They found themselves in an unfortunate and desperate aituation. They did what they did do put food on the tables of their families. They sacrificed their life and riked death and prison to provide for their families. Maybe they were not crying because they got caught but becausse now they can not feed their children. Can you blame people for breaking the law to feed their children? God help anyone who is so deperate. May God Bless America !

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SonofMichael, May 21, 3:28 PM