dear Hudson (aka $hit-for-brains) - I have never stated that our Constitution says a company has to hire Americans; however, it is sound business practice, you idiot. Go ahead - sell out jobs to cheap foreign labor and see what you get....cheap $hit, poor quality products and services...and you want these clowns working on aircraft? This just shows that you are the product of in-breeding.

quote:

Originally posted by Someone12:
dear Hudson (aka $hit-for-brains) - I have never stated that our Constitution says a company has to hire Americans; however, it is sound business practice, you idiot. Go ahead - sell out jobs to cheap foreign labor and see what you get....cheap $hit, poor quality products and services...and you want these clowns working on aircraft? This just shows that you are the product of in-breeding.

Of really. First you said this, "we don't need $5 an hour airline mechanics....hire AMERICANS, not Canadians (or Mexicans or Dominicans or Romanians or anyone else except AMERICANS...because we live in AMERICA)" and thin you said this, "it is sound business practice." Si, which is it? Either way, you are violating the 1964 Civil Rights Act Title VII which states there should be no discrimination between race, nationality, ethnicity, etc. You wouold purposely violate the legal laws of our Country to satisfy your personal vendetta. You have no respect for the laws of this land and therefore have no respect for this country.

NOTE: Your alleged IQ is dropping in the subterranean level.

S12: In the context of general perspective and by all measures, Hudson's is one of the most enlightened minds on this forum. And the OP is an alien who's trying to play by the rules and do it right. I thought you're OK with that, or at least that's what you claim. But it appears that actually your claim has neither any logical nor factual basis. It more seems that you hate everybody and the world. Maybe even yourself. Some individuals in the same state of being even hurt themselves, or have suicidal tendencies. Please don't do that, we'll miss you. Decency on discussion boards like this is good, yet sometimes boring. That's why we need you to stay!

Nobuyoshi Araki at the Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Contemporary Art <--LINK

Someone12 is actually partially correct. The selling out of our jobs out does happen, a lot. For example the YMCA in Colorado has a J1 program. It is supposed to be a hospitality training program. The internationals as they are called are made to work the hotel for $3.00 an hour. They do most of the housekeeping and other laborious tasks. The staff who are the USC's are the managers. The internationals live at the hotel at cheap rates but are subject to strict living arrangements. It isn't what they signed up for and the community for the most part is unaware. If you complain about not getting minimum wage your canned and sent home.

They get around the rules of equal pay by calling it a training or internship program.
I'll assume for the moment the economics of this arrangement are self evident.

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
Someone12 is actually partially correct. The selling out of our jobs out does happen, a lot. For example the YMCA in Colorado has a J1 program. It is supposed to be a hospitality training program. The internationals as they are called are made to work the hotel for $3.00 an hour. They do most of the housekeeping and other laborious tasks. The staff who are the USC's are the managers. The internationals live at the hotel at cheap rates but are subject to strict living arrangements. It isn't what they signed up for and the community for the most part is unaware. If you complain about not getting minimum wage your canned and sent home.

Please show proof of this.

Hospitality programs have many different avenues for employment. It not only means jobs managing or employed in the hotel or restaurant industry, but also touring, entertainment parks, marketing, lottery, casino, and a few other areas.

quote:

They get around the rules of equal pay by calling it a training or internship program.
I'll assume for the moment the economics of this arrangement are self evident.

I think you are getting confused with internships and co-operative programs. In internships, students pay the university the required tuition fees and other related costs. In coop programs, the employers provides a base training salary on a part-time or full-time basis with the university while the student pays a nominal fee and no tuition costs. The company is required to give periodic updates on the student's progress, particularly if one is involved in an internship program. If a company under an internship program does provide pay, they usually hire either at the basic minimum wage or industry minimum wage. In the hotel industry, minimum wage is around $4.25 an hour. It is exempt from the standardized minimum wage laws, just like restaurant employees, from my understanding.

and that is why this J1 'training' is a scam....it's all about hiring the cheapest, krappiest labor around....hire Americans...period....no $hitbag from some other country has anything to say about this because the United States of America is for Americans, not visa cheats nor border jumpers nor scumbags who lie about their qualifications to displace an American....we should be protecting American workers, not some jagoff from outer ***phuk.

This is an example of a respectful post:

quote:

Of really. First you said this, "we don't need $5 an hour airline mechanics....hire AMERICANS, not Canadians (or Mexicans or Dominicans or Romanians or anyone else except AMERICANS...because we live in AMERICA)" and thin you said this, "it is sound business practice." Si, which is it? Either way, you are violating the 1964 Civil Rights Act Title VII which states there should be no discrimination between race, nationality, ethnicity, etc. You wouold purposely violate the legal laws of our Country to satisfy your personal vendetta. You have no respect for the laws of this land and therefore have no respect for this country.

NOTE: Your alleged IQ is dropping in the subterranean level.

And, this one is the exact opposite!

quote:

and that is why this J1 'training' is a scam....it's all about hiring the cheapest, krappiest labor around....hire Americans...period....no $hitbag from some other country has anything to say about this because the United States of America is for Americans, not visa cheats nor border jumpers nor scumbags who lie about their qualifications to displace an American....we should be protecting American workers, not some jagoff from outer ***phuk.

You're wasting your time S12, people are expecting more from you and you're not delivering!

quote:

Please show proof of this.

Hospitality programs have many different avenues for employment. It not only means jobs managing or employed in the hotel or restaurant industry, but also touring, entertainment parks, marketing, lottery, casino, and a few other areas.

What kind of moron do you take me for. Please don't think you have give me a job description of what hospitality is. Prove it? Am I on trial? I would not have come and said who it was if I didn't have bonifed hard evidence to support it.

Hudson, Ive seen my girlfriends pay stubs. It says $3.00 an hour. I do know how to read one. Remember, I am an owner/employer. I know the minimum wage is adjusted down for industries where tips are expected. In that place the internationals were more or less told to keep their distance from the guests. No chance for tips. This was in 2005. In addition Colorado has a higher than fed requirement for minimum wage which supercedes the fed requirement. I don't recall what it was in 2005, I think the fed was around 6.50. Colorado was at 8.00 at the time.

The program she was under was sold to her like a lot of people as being far more than what it was. She along with many others had graduated from universities or tech schools where travel/tourism was the focus. That was the kind of people they wanted. They made it look like a real education enhancement. She like most were very dissapointed. It was as I described it. The only real training they had was once a week for an hour in a class room. Aside from that it was laundry room, housekeeping, building maintenance, etc. The reality was they wanted people they didn't have to train to do the grunt work. Oh wait. If you made crew chief you got a raise to $4.00 an hour. Oh boy happy days! That is also part of the reason we probably get the quality of work as Someone so colorfully described. The immigrants know they are getting bent over and show their resentment.

This is the YMCA doing this. A supposed Christian organization that would never take advantage of huddled masses. If they do it, what do you think the average corp does?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: davdah,

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
What kind of moron do you take me for. Please don't think you have give me a job description of what hospitality is. Prove it? Am I on trial? I would not have come and said who it was if I didn't have bonifed hard evidence to support it.

I was actually looking for an article or something similar. The description sounded too Hollywood for my taste. I don't think you do not have much experience with J or F internship programs. Not only is there an agreement with the university or trade school which the business enterprise, but the program also needs to meet US Dept of Education and DHS regulations which must adhere to the various governmental regulations set with. I looked up the YMCA of the Rockies and ICCP. I even looked up information about any complaints on the program through various governmental agencies like the US Dept of Education and through private organizations such as the International Journal of Hospitality Management. I found none. And there is a signed agreement, generally, because the program, particularly with hospitality management, is required for undergraduate and/or graduate diplomas (usually a single piece of paper, maybe two pages) but also there is no signed agreement either. Depends on the job and the institution.

quote:

Hudson, Ive seen my girlfriends pay stubs. It says $3.00 an hour. I do know how to read one. Remember, I am an owner/employer. I know the minimum wage is adjusted down for industries where tips are expected. In that place the internationals were more or less told to keep their distance from the guests. No chance for tips. This was in 2005. In addition Colorado has a higher than fed requirement for minimum wage which supersedes the fed requirement. I don't recall what it was in 2005, I think the fed was around 6.50. Colorado was at 8.00 at the time.

Not everything being shown on the pay stub exemplifies what is actually going on. For instance, she could have had free housing as a non taxable fringe benefit when you said she had to live under strict living arrangements. Under § 119. Meals or lodging furnished for the convenience of the employer, this code section contains the requirements for some, most, or all of lodging to be considered nontaxable. It may also be indicative of why #3 an hour, along with tips, would also be the salary. This could include # Domestic service workers who reside in their employers' residences; which she could be. as well as other examples.

quote:

The program she was under was sold to her like a lot of people as being far more than what it was. She along with many others had graduated from universities or tech schools where travel/tourism was the focus. That was the kind of people they wanted. They made it look like a real education enhancement. She like most were very dissapointed. It was as I described it. The only real training they had was once a week for an hour in a class room. Aside from that it was laundry room, housekeeping, building maintenance, etc. The reality was they wanted people they didn't have to train to do the grunt work. Oh wait. If you made crew chief you got a raise to $4.00 an hour. Oh boy happy days! That is also part of the reason we probably get the quality of work as Someone so colorfully described. The immigrants know they are getting bent over and show their resentment.

This is the YMCA doing this. A supposed Christian organization that would never take advantage of huddled masses. If they do it, what do you think the average corp does?

The program will not survive if you say what is true because the immigrants will report the infractions to their respective embassies or consulates or to the international student affairs office, or o USCIS, or US federal regulatory agency, preferably the DOL or IRS if it is tax related. With tax related, this is usually the employer withholding taxes even though the code section tells them not required under certain circumstances. But the program will not survive eventually.

If the perks or non direct payments were included wouldn't it be listed on the pay stubs or the W2 for that matter? She kept all of her paystubs and I didn't see anything other than the normal deductions. I don't think the majority of them even knew they were being underpaid. They were barred from being employed anywhere else.

There were a couple USC's there too. They did get paid more and were living in the same conditions. The housing was not entirely free. They were charged a flat fee for the duration of their stay. They paid 50.00 per paycheck until it was paid off. I talked to another person from Zambia who was in the same program. They agreed it was more or less cheap labor. Not much in the way of any educational value at all. They have had complaints filed against them. Mostly of a sexual nature. Bad enough they didn't pay enough but the groping crossed the line.

Doesn't really matter any more. I brought it up to illistrate the point that some employers will try to find ways to get cheap labor. I would imagine the YMCA would have their ducks in a row to cover themselves legally. On the one hand I can't blame them. If you own a company you want to maximize profits. How far do you go is the moral question.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: davdah,

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
If the perks or non direct payments were included wouldn't it be listed on the pay stubs or the W2 for that matter? She kept all of her paystubs and I didn't see anything other than the normal deductions. I don't think the majority of them even knew they were being underpaid. They were barred from being employed anywhere else.

There were a couple USC's there too. They did get paid more and were living in the same conditions. The housing was not entirely free. They were charged a flat fee for the duration of their stay. They paid 50.00 per paycheck until it was paid off. I talked to another person from Zambia who was in the same program. They agreed it was more or less cheap labor. Not much in the way of any educational value at all. They have had complaints filed against them. Mostly of a sexual nature. Bad enough they didn't pay enough but the groping crossed the line.

Doesn't really matter any more. I brought it up to illistrate the point that some employers will try to find ways to get cheap labor. I would imagine the YMCA would have their ducks in a row to cover themselves legally. On the one hand I can't blame them. If you own a company you want to maximize profits. How far do you go is the moral question.

1. Pay stubs are not required, but employers are required to keep accurate records of hours worked and wages paid. I know a couple of states that require pay stubs to employees who are not exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act. With this in mind, if the employer is providing a pay stub, then the employer would need to show only hours worked, wages paid, other taxable compensation, and the required deductions by law or by contract of employment. Nontaxable fringe benefits paid by the employer will not show on the pay stub and not on the W-2, unless it is an accountable plan of expenses paid. Nontaxable fringe benefits deducted from the paycheck and pay stub, generally cafeteria 125 plans and elective deferrals, will show on the W-2 either in box 12 or box 14.

2. One of my suspicions is I think the employer double dipped on the housing. You stated she was charged $50 per paycheck. Was the charge for the room or was the charge for something else associated for the room?

3. I still contend that your girlfriend file a complaint with her alma mater showing the pay stubs and any contract she signed. She can also file a complaint with USCIS employer liaison division and with the DOL. Statue of Limitation expire three years from the date the internship ended or began, I can't remembe which. But get it on paper even though her employment has passed.

4. I will agree that some employers will take advantage, knowingly or unknowingly, of certain situations. However, your last response is a far cry than generalizing that all foreign internship programs are bad, the general impression I got, when you partially agreed with S12.

I took another look at the pay stubs. They listed the pay as REG-FOREIGN for the 3.00 hourly. It appears they also deducted for health insurance along with the 50.00 weekly. The 50.00 was listed as education-smr. There was a section for tips but it was always 0.00. She kept all her paystubs along with everything else. A pack rat she is.

When I did her taxes I didn't see anything other than the normal taxable earnings on the W-2. She doesn't want me bringing this up since she is in the situation she is in. Afraid of rocking the boat I suppose. Perhaps she is correct to a point. It may be best to leave it to judicial review when the time comes.

I didn't mean to say ALL J1 programs were bad. Im sure most are in keeping with what is fair. I am curious to see what the reaction will be when this is brought up during the hearings.