As for the economy related post of yours Hudson, it is all fluff and not much concrete and real information. My post above is concrete and real, reflecting the real state of the economy. If retailers are selling 30% less than a year ago, this is BAD.
As for the gas prices. COME ON! Let's see how the gas price is going to go UP and UP and UP after the elections...
Originally posted by user99: Hudson, you are such a ******* baby. How old are you? You are having a fit while responding to posts and you want me to come to your town and tell you how I feel directly to your face? Oh my God......get off this discussion board if you can't handle it.
No lad. from your statement, "I won't believe that you are legal here and you can't prove it." This has the underlying of statinng "only real Americans care for this country" and other such half-arse, neocleptic arguments from nativists. And it is from this viewpoint that I took offense and look at your reply: whimpering out. I am still giving you the opportunity to know that I am a US citizen, and yet you refuse when confronted with information differennt from your self absorbed, narrow-minded thinking. The only thing you are proving is that Hilter's message is still alive and well and the scapegoat are immigrants, whether legal or illegal.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Originally posted by iperson: As for the economy related post of yours Hudson, it is all fluff and not much concrete and real information. My post above is concrete and real, reflecting the real state of the economy. If retailers are selling 30% less than a year ago, this is BAD.
As for the gas prices. COME ON! Let's see how the gas price is going to go UP and UP and UP after the elections...
provide links please!
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Originally posted by templar: Nice try, except that's not how it is. Let's look at Los Angeles as an example, the capitol city of the Alien nation. If you look at LA City college application form, you'll notice that it gives you an option to decline to state SSN for whatever reason. To get the in-state rate, you just have to answer a series of questions on the application and declare yourself a California resident. There are no questions for determining the legal presence in the country.
The in-state tuition rate for upcoming semester is $20/credit. If an illegal wants to register a full time, 12 credits/semester are required. That comes out to $20/credit x12credit x 2 semester/year = $480/year. $480 per year isn't exactly qualified as 100 lb barbells, is it?
Of course, the real cost is 20 times as much, which is all subsidized by the state government. In addition, I could be wrong on this, but I understood that they can apply for fee waver by using a tax payer ID number in place of SSN. And then they don't even have to pay poultry $480, and it's entirely free.
I'd like to knw what other countries in the world give free education to illegal aliens.
So, you are stating that if one gets in state tuition instead of out of state tuition, then that is called "financial aid?" Templar, financial aid is not formatted to be just the difference between one getting in state or out of state tuition, but financial aid is specific aid that helps one pay for college given the calucated educational cost. This is why the FALFA form is filled out and is, in part, verified by tax and financial information. But the aid package is also filled out for those who want to obtain scholarships, even if need based. Furthermore, states residency requirements has more to do with state income tax rates, not benefits. it is an assumption that if one lives in the state consistently, then California, instead of another state, will get the lion's share of state taxes. You still have not proven anything about illegals, much less legal residents, on abusing the system.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
So, you are stating that if one gets in state tuition instead of out of state tuition, then that is called "financial aid?" Templar, financial aid is not formatted to be just the difference between one getting in state or out of state tuition, but financial aid is specific aid that helps one pay for college given the calucated educational cost. This is why the FALFA form is filled out and is, in part, verified by tax and financial information. But the aid package is also filled out for those who want to obtain scholarships, even if need based. Furthermore, states residency requirements has more to do with state income tax rates, not benefits. it is an assumption that if one lives in the state consistently, then California, instead of another state, will get the lion's share of state taxes. You still have not proven anything about illegals, much less legal residents, on abusing the system.
Haven't I already clearly mentioned in my previous example that the illegals apply for tuition waver? If that is not a financial aid, I don't know what is. For tuition waver program, they do not need to file FALFA or any other federal forms.
Originally posted by templar: Haven't I already clearly mentioned in my previous example that the illegals apply for tuition waver? If that is not a financial aid, I don't know what is. For tuition waver program, they do not need to file FALFA or any other federal forms.
Your problem is anyone can file the tuition waiver, not just illegals if they choose to do so. However, the way Calfornia states their residency requirements also allows illegals to be residents of the state, whether they are here legally or illegally. Thus, one can get in state tuition rates. Some states have changed their residency requirements to be linked with USCIS immigration visas, but I do not think California has done that yet. But then again, what would you expect from a place that is labeled the land of fruitcakes, nuts, and honies.
Knock yourself out on Venice beach there.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Let's look at Los Angeles as an example, the capitol city of the Alien nation.
Be precise, since that's what you demand from others (yet don't adhere to yourself). There is no such a thing as "Alien Nation", nor do Aliens have a "capitol", but there are Illegal Aliens scattered throughout the Nation, with somewhat larger concentration in some areas as opposed to other.
quote:
If you look at LA City college application form, you'll notice that it gives you an option to decline to state SSN for whatever reason. To get the in-state rate, you just have to answer a series of questions on the application and declare yourself a California resident.
Did I say that there are no colleges in whole Nation where illegal students can get in-state tuition?
Or did I actually say that "Some States may even allow for in-state tuition (so, if prospective student, who is illegal, resides in those States, then such person may qualify for in-state tuition)" ?
I myself am aware of City Univercity Of New York which EXPLICITLY allows for in-state tuition charge of illegal aliens who are residents of State of New York. And current in-state tuition rate at CUNY is $1400-$2000 per semester for Undergraduate and $3200-$4400 per semester for Graduate studies.
quote:
There are no questions for determining the legal presence in the country.
There ARE. See Question # 18 of LACC's Admission Application:
If you are not a US Citizen, please circle and complete:
2. Permanent Resident Alien 3. Temporary Resident Alien _______________Permanent Resident or Visa Number 4. Refugee, Asylee 5. Student Visa (F-1 or M-1 visa) 6. Other (Specify): _______________Issue/Adjustment Date 7. Visitor Visa (B-1 or B-2 visa)
state tuition rate for upcoming semester is $20/credit. If an illegal wants to register a full time, 12 credits/semester are required. That comes out to $20/credit x12credit x 2 semester/year = $480/year. $480 per year isn't exactly qualified as 100 lb barbells, is it?
No, it "isn't exactly qualified as 100 lb barbells" if you happen to be an illegal alien residing in Los Angeles, CA and allowed to pay in-state tuition* at the rate shown on"ADMISSIONS, FEES & FINANCIAL AID" page.
But $480 isn't exactly the cost of attendance either (This is not to complain of in-State tuition rate at CCLA - which is exception to the rule, incredibly low by any American standards and in no way qualifies as an example to be used in general context - but only to be accurate in reflecting the real cost of attendance at CCLA for those paying in-state tuition).
The actual cost of attendance at CCLA (in-state tuition) is estimated at $2966. [$2966 = $698 (Tuition plus Fees) plus $1314 (books and supplies) plus $954 (Transportation). I exclude $3348(Room&Board) and $2826 (Personal Expenses)] as "Living Costs", which is not exactly part of "Attendance Costs". I also note that if "Room & Board" is provided to any student at the rate of $3348 for 9 months, then obviously it reflects large subsidy if you take into account the living costs in LA, CA.]
(For [CCLA attendance] cost reference see the link above).
quote:
Of course, the real cost is 20 times as much, which is all subsidized by the state government. In addition, I could be wrong on this, but I understood that they can apply for fee waver by using a tax payer ID number in place of SSN. And then they don't even have to pay poultry $480, and it's entirely free.
I too think that you are wrong about this.
It's true that the office of Financial Aid does allow for Fee Waivers, but one must meet the established criteria to qualify in the first place. And it's not just "low income" that determines whether one meets the requirements set thereupon.
The first step is to apply for FAFSA.
You can't do that if you have no valid social security number, and even if you do have SSA issued SS # but are illegal, FAFSA will check your identity against the SSA and DHS databases, to confirm both your identity and immigration status .
Not having a Permanent, Refugee or USC status will result in automatical denial of FAFSA.
But let us allow, theoretically, that those Fees MAY be waived for illegal alien at CCLA. If you calculate FEES it will amount to $218 for full time student enrolled for 9 months [$218 (Fees) = $698 (In-State Tuition&Fees) minus $480 (In-State Tuition Only)].
Also note that per CCLA statement "Any student who attempts to obtain financial aid by fraud will be suspended from financial aid for unsatisfactory conduct. The college will report such instances to local law enforcement agencies, to the California Student Aid Commission, and/or to the Federal government. Restitution of any financial aid received in such a manner will be required".
I'd like to knw what other countries in the world give free education to illegal aliens
I couldn't care less about other countries in the world giving free education to illegal aliens, or where the education is free for all regardless of status and income.
We are in America and hence we discuss issues concerning Americans and in the context of our own, American reality.
Any shift of focus , such as "I wonder what those on the Moon are doing?" is irrelevant to the subject discussed and doesn't merit a further comment.
Regards,
IE
___________________________
An update:
Per CCLA Admission's Office (representative on the phone), out-of-status students are allowed to register and take classess, but are not allowed to pay in-state tuition.
You can reach them at:
(323) 953-4000 ext. 2104
So much for a "nice try, except that's not how it is".
This message has been edited. Last edited by: IMPENETRABLE,
___________________________________
When the creations of a genius collide with the mind of a layman, and produce an empty sound, there is little doubt as to which is at fault.
One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.
Those who do not want to imitate anything, create nothing.
This is not what I said and you know it. Here is what I actually posted (and already quoted once):
quote:
ImpenetrablE Posted October 31, 2006 05:07 PM :
Some States may even allow for in-state tuition (so, if prospective student, who is illegal, resides in those States, then such person may qualify for in-state tuition).
But how many States allow that? Two, three or four out of fifty?
How about remaining 46-48 States?
Can you use an exceptional example as if it was reflecting the general rule?
And what is the cost of in-state tuition in those few States where it is available to illegals?
What is the real "Cost of Attendance"?
(BTW, per CCLA Admission's Office (according to what their representative said to me on the phone) the College you brought as an example (CCLA) indeed does not allow out-of-status students to pay in-state tuition. So, it leaves what you called a "poultry" tuition cost of $480 a year out of reach for illegal students).
And if the actual cost of attendance (tuition plus fees, books, supplies and transportation ranges) between $5000-$10000 (obviously not Ivy League Schools, but some of the most affordable, including those that allows to charge illegals in-state tuition ), then how does an illegal make ends meet while working in minimum paying service jobs, without parents who can support and without any kind of Federal Aid or Federally Guaranteed Loan? How many hours one would have to work in those kind of minimu paying jobs to afford both living and college costs? 70 hours a week? 90 hours a week? When one is supposed to go to library, write projects and do homework with such work-schedule? Or , suppose if one does 50 hours a week of back-breaking concrete-laying job for relatively higher pay, ask yourself how much strength and energy would it leave for college studies? What other , higher paying jobs with less physical load , can illegal student find and take?
quote:
ImpenetrablE Posted October 31, 2006 05:07 PM :
But are there illegals who make it anyway? Of course there are! Some are working two jobs and at the same time take full-credit courses per semestr and they somehow manage to get good or exellent grades, just as an athlete with proves of Hercules would run up-hills with 100-lbs tied to the feet. But let's not imply that since some people are able to run-up with 100-lbs artificially tied to their necks, it means there are no obstacles to reach the top of the hill for anyone who wishes do the same.
And I say, I don't need links Hudson. I have the information from the source itself. I am meeting millions of sellers every day, and that's where I get the information. A well of...
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