Originally posted by SunDevilUSA: Honey: So, your husband's family has been in America for five generations...and he thinks that he is more Dutch than American? Quite honestly, I have seldom heard something so stupid.
When was the last time that your husband was in the Netherlands? I'd venture that he's never actually been there.
More Dutch than American, that's funny (ROFL).
No, he is just proud of his ancestors, there is nothing bad about it. You should always have some respect towards them - oh, maybe you were not brought up that way ; sorry.
hes ancestors ? the criminals that kill the native Americans ! look at hes genetics, hes luck of education and low IQ ....and criminal behavior now this idiot feel like he own this land
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roco
Posts: 56 | Location: USA | Registered: 01-23-2007
Here's iperson to the rescue Honey! Sorry, have been busy running my beezwax..
Anyway, looks like we both have secret admirers.. LMAO! I am jealous, you've got the devil himself and I got just someone. Not fair...
For one thing SunDevil, we're not setting out to badmouth America, just people like Someone who give a bad name to your country and someone like you Devil, who give bad name to immigrants. Do you think SunDevil, that by forgetting where you came from and being ashamed of your own country (which you don't even mention) is what will endear you to Americans? Make no mistake. They laugh at you and your low self esteem. I went through this phase initially too,I admit. Everything that was Polish was Yuck and everything here was Great. But it changed soon and now I appreciate my roots and where I come from thousand times more than when I lived in Poland. I appreciate the excellent education I received in my country, I appreciate my world class teachers, I appreciate my parents and what they have done for me, I appreciate my country's history, culture, and the all the people who contributed to Poland, Pilsudski, Lech Walesa, and most of John Paul II. I am so proud I am Polish although many foreigners have very uneducated and ignorant opinion about my country. In addition, my immigration experience enriches me as a human being. The two cultures, Polish and American combined, knowledge of history, fine art (my BFA from an American university), pop culture, music (love j***), etc etc. make me a person who sees life in both countries from a perspective. My conclusion is there are no better and no lesser nations. All nations on earth contribute different aspects to our human experience.
So for Someone12 say that Poland doesnt have great car manufacturers or space shuttle programs, it does not matter. We are not in competition with each other, but should be working together and enrich our knowledge and contribute to the human kind, not serve only our own country's interests and antagonize others.
The war in Iraq is wrong because it not only had no grounds, but also antagonized the world, instead of making peace. It was not a contribution but destruction.
If you want to introduce democracy into other parts of the world and fight terrorism, do it using peaceful means (economy, culture) and covert actions (intelligence, technology).
And most of all, be respectful towards other people, especially other nationalities. Your demeanor, as well as Someone12's causes that we react defensively. You are the ones who create conflict, not us. We have a lot of good things we like about this country, but you are not asking us if we like it here and what we don't like here. You just don't want us here.
Originally posted by iperson: Here's iperson to the rescue Honey! Sorry, have been busy running my beezwax..
Anyway, looks like we both have secret admirers.. LMAO! I am jealous, you've got the devil himself and I got just someone. Not fair...
For one thing SunDevil, we're not setting out to badmouth America, just people like Someone who give a bad name to your country and someone like you Devil, who give bad name to immigrants. Do you think SunDevil, that by forgetting where you came from and being ashamed of your own country (which you don't even mention) is what will endear you to Americans? Make no mistake. They laugh at you and your low self esteem. I went through this phase initially too,I admit. Everything that was Polish was Yuck and everything here was Great. But it changed soon and now I appreciate my roots and where I come from thousand times more than when I lived in Poland. I appreciate the excellent education I received in my country, I appreciate my world class teachers, I appreciate my parents and what they have done for me, I appreciate my country's history, culture, and the all the people who contributed to Poland, Pilsudski, Lech Walesa, and most of John Paul II. I am so proud I am Polish although many foreigners have very uneducated and ignorant opinion about my country. In addition, my immigration experience enriches me as a human being. The two cultures, Polish and American combined, knowledge of history, fine art (my BFA from an American university), pop culture, music (love j***), etc etc. make me a person who sees life in both countries from a perspective. My conclusion is there are no better and no lesser nations. All nations on earth contribute different aspects to our human experience.
So for Someone12 say that Poland doesnt have great car manufacturers or space shuttle programs, it does not matter. We are not in competition with each other, but should be working together and enrich our knowledge and contribute to the human kind, not serve only our own country's interests and antagonize others.
The war in Iraq is wrong because it not only had no grounds, but also antagonized the world, instead of making peace. It was not a contribution but destruction.
If you want to introduce democracy into other parts of the world and fight terrorism, do it using peaceful means (economy, culture) and covert actions (intelligence, technology).
And most of all, be respectful towards other people, especially other nationalities. Your demeanor, as well as Someone12's causes that we react defensively. You are the ones who create conflict, not us. We have a lot of good things we like about this country, but you are not asking us if we like it here and what we don't like here. You just don't want us here.
Iperson, thank you !!!!!
What you put down here is a masterpiece and I must admit you expressed exactly what I had in mind too. You wrote what I had in my heart, beautiful!
Originally posted by Honey: I just wonder about another thing – why many Americans are coming to Czech Republic and after they come back they cannot drink your American ‘so-called beer’ anymore? I heard many Americans saying that US beer is a not-drinkable substance compared to Czech beer (try for instance Gambrinus, buddy)!.But, unfortunately, our beer is so good that SabMiller
If are going to drink alcohol, you only should drink the good stuff, not grog (Old English Term). For me, Don Perignon, Napoleon Brande, or sake.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams on Defense of the boston Massacre
Iperson: With all due respect, I have not said anything bad about any country (least of all Poland or the Czech Republic)...well, except for Mexico, perhaps, which is a country for which - well, you really don't need to know my thoughts on Mexico.
In fact, if memory serves, I have paid Poland a very real compliment on this very thread.
I am not ashamed of my country of origin...but, neither am I going to wax lyrical about it. I live in America, and know that I would rather live here than live there. Therefore, I am happy for America to have my loyalty and my patriotism.
I do not expect immigrants to have bad opinions about their countries of origin, but I do expect that said immigrants acknowledge that they made the free choice to immigrate to America...and are not going "home" any time soon - and most likely never. I do take exception when I read immigrants expressing negative thoughts about America...while trying to convince us that their countries of origin are paradise on earth.
And remember, Poland surely looks better from a distance. Just ask all of the hundreds of thousands of Poles who hightailed it to Britain and Ireland on the stroke of midnight on January 1, 2004.
Originally posted by Honey: I just wonder about another thing – why many Americans are coming to Czech Republic and after they come back they cannot drink your American ‘so-called beer’ anymore? I heard many Americans saying that US beer is a not-drinkable substance compared to Czech beer (try for instance Gambrinus, buddy)!.But, unfortunately, our beer is so good that SabMiller
And remember, Poland surely looks better from a distance. Just ask all of the hundreds of thousands of Poles who hightailed it to Britain and Ireland on the stroke of midnight on January 1, 2004.
Well. Another snide remark. Of course they are leaving, again. Again as it happened over the past 300 years. The best Polish literature was written on foreign soil, where people were forced to emigrate to earn bread.
If you take the time to learn what happened during this time, you would understand the situation.
So, you haven't told us yet what country you come from.
Originally posted by SunDevilUSA: Iperson: With all due respect, I have not said anything bad about any country (least of all Poland or the Czech Republic)...... I do take exception when I read immigrants expressing negative thoughts about America...while trying to convince us that their countries of origin are paradise on earth.
To SunDevilUSA: Thank you very much for your post! There is only one thing - you probably did not understand the whole meaning while you were reading the posts Iperson and I wrote here – we do not try to convince you our home countries are paradise on Earth; not at all. We just tried to say there was much injustice in the past which caused our home countries are still in a big mess (from fully developed countries we ended up in economical chaos – and because we had no other choice, everything was conducted by the USSR, we could not do anything about it for a long time). And ultimately the USA either did not prevent this happening or they just let us fall under Soviet rule (it was mainly GB influence; but still). Well, it does not matter what happened in the past now anyways – we cannot change it. So, please, try to understand this inconsistency, this chaos we have to face. On one side we want to be loyal to our new country we love, on the other hand we cannot forget what happened to our home countries in the past because of all the injustice. So for instance if you start to praise German cars and put them like they are better than Czech ones (or that Czech Skodas are actually German cars) - this is to me like revealing a red flag in front of a bull. Sorry, it seemed to me like you neglected everything what Skoda factory achieved before the W.W.II. started. Because in Czech (and I do believe in Polish people too) there is still so much sadness - like how come that somebody who started the W.W.II. now has a better life and us, victims of the war, whose destinies were in somebody else’s hands for many years after the war ended, why do we have still to pay the high price while the Germans, the aggressors, are doing fine? I do not want to be unjust towards German people, many of them were victims too but this is not my point now.
This just reminds me one professor, a very nice and educated guy who was teaching us Economical Geography at the University. It was around 1991 and he entered the class … all of the sudden he pulled out the German money from 20’s and said: “see, this is one million of Deutsch marks. Back then it was just enough to buy bread in Germany – and Czech economy was flourishing. But now – where are they and where are we?†And he started to cry, the lesson was over. Later on I found out his family was persecuted by Germans and later by Bolsheviks too (they stole all his family property, his father died in jail, …) and I felt that his desperate cry had a good reason – somebody loyal, hard working etc. who never had a chance to succeed in life. He was from a family where his father was a university professor too so, in other words, he was not considered ‘suitable’ by communist regime because he was not a member of a labor working force. Only after 1989, when he was 75, he was finally granted the privilege to teach at the university (before he was working in the boiler-room for years). So this guy was self-educating himself for more than 40 years and finally he was given some recognition at the dusk of his life. He was quite ‘lucky’; many people did not survive long enough to get some at all.
Personally I had never an intention to come over here; all I wanted was to have a nice family, good husband and kids. But because I was not lucky on guys in Czech Republic (it seems to me they got a bit ‘russianized’ – many Czech guys nowadays think that the woman must make money, take care of the whole household, kids etc. and only men are entitled to have all the fun by themselves with no responsibility (another ‘nice heritage’ from Russians), I finally found my big love in the USA; he is a great husband and father, really. And this man is worth of all the sacrifices I had to make – and some of them were not easy to make, believe me. I had to sell a family house my grand-grand parents built, I had to give up a decent job, I lost many friends (they to not understand my problems now and I do not understand theirs anymore). But I wanted kids and a good family and I praise this above all I had to sacrifice.
Yes, I have chosen the USA as my new country. Despite the fact it was not easy to get used to the life over here, I think I tried hard. I love the USA a lot (despite I miss my historical architecture), I know many great people over here and now I consider this country to be my new home and I am more than willing to support the USA an many ways. Even I was given a credit many times from my neighbors etc. – I think they like me and I like them; we get along more than well. All my intentions are just pure – I do not think I badmouth the USA; I just point out like ‘yes, this is good but lets’ make it better’. Lets learn from the past and NEVER make mistakes we did again. I want to give all my best to my new country – in my eyes it is necessary to say that something we should do better; but please, take this as a suggestion, not a badmouthing from me, OK? PLEASE!
Honey: Thank you for your post. You are obviously a very thoughtful and intelligent person, and a genuine benefit to the United States.
I think that most countries have a turbulent history, but I am well aware that the Czech Republic, and other countries in eastern Europe, have only recently escaped from tyranny. As a teenager, I had a "Solidarity" T-shirt that I wore often...which was possible to do in western Europe!! I also was a great admirer of President Reagan and Prime Minister Thatcher, both of whom I credit with helping to end the Soviet domination of eastern Europe.
I have never visited eastern Europe, as I have been living in America since shortly after the region's liberation...although I would love to travel to Prague, Warsaw and Budapest. When the eastern European countries joined NATO, I thought that was just amazing...and I fully supported their entry into the European Union a little while later.
I am aware of the Czech Republic's history of engineering prowess, and know that many companies are investing in the country. It is obvious that the Czech Republic, and the other eastern European countries, have progressed at a very fast rate since 1989. Those of us who have always had the good fortune to live in the "west" are delighted that eastern Europe is now free...and we welcomed you with open arms to join our security and economic infrastructures.
I am so pleased that you are happy living in America, and I respect that you acknowledge that this is a great country. On this issue, despite the initial appearance that we disagreed - which I always expected was more imagined than real - it turns out that we do actually think alike. And, yes, constructive criticism is good...because that's how we make things even better.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: SunDevilUSA,
It seems like we found a mutual platform and agreement and what we initially thought about each other was transformed into something much more positive; that is great. I am very glad we got there, indeed.
Just one small remark; countries (especially Poland and CR) are very sensitive when the West puts us to the Easter Europe (mainly because it puts us in the same bag with Russians). Ultimately Prague is almost in the geographical center of Europe. It is the same like you would say that Austria is in the Eastern Europe too (and it is, actually starts even more to the East than CR). But this is just a suggestion.
Until you explained it to me, I was unaware of the ongoing sensitivity with regard to describing Poland, the Czech Republic and others as being in eastern Europe. It is a term that has long been used in "western" Europe to refer collectively to the formerly Soviet-dominated countries to the east.
Although somewhat inaccurate, it is still used as an easy to understand way to refer to those countries collectively. You should be aware that, today, the use of the term eastern Europe is generally understood to refer solely to those countries unwillingly dominated by the Soviet Union...but NOT Russia. The term does, however, include the former Soviet Republics of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia - that are actually further west than large chunks of western Europe.
Please understand that no offense is meant by the use of the term eastern Europe. When the eastern European countries won their freedom, we celebrated with you. The majority of those countries have been warmly welcomed into the security and economic infrastructures of the United States and its allies.
When I was a child, Czechoslovakia was behind the "Iron Curtain," and basically off-limits. Its people were not allowed to travel freely and were oppressed. Now, we are allies and partners...you and I now share European Union passports (until I trade mine for an American passport in the near future)...you could chose to live in my country of origin, and I in yours (thankfully, though, we are both lucky enough to live in America).
It is quite wonderful. One day, perhaps, the Russians themselves will be so lucky.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: SunDevilUSA,
Again, thank you very much for explaining this to me; see Czech Republic (I cannot talk for Poland) was traditionally somewhat west-oriented until the W.W.II. After we discovered what damage was caused by former Moscow ruled government (our own government always had to do what Moscow wanted) and because we knew that all was just a big fraud to us, it is only logical we are rejecting to have anything in common with them. But if the Eastern Europe countries has a different meaning and does not just mean Russia and its satellites, it is OK. I promise I will be less ‘touchy’ next time. But as for Russians, I do not know. I wish them the best too but again on the other hand we do not want another Stalin, do we? Take care!
Honey: I completely understand eastern Europe's animosity toward Russia, and am very well aware of it. Now that the Eastern European countries are in both NATO and the European Union, they are effectively out of Russia's potential control. With their security situation assured, they are able to concentrate on their economic and political development as members of the European Union.
I realize that Russia still attempts to assert some level of control through the supply of energy resources (as in Lithuania recently), but its ability to do so is much diminished now that they are basically dealing with the collective European Union. The attempts at control are much more troublesome, albeit not entirely successful either, with countries outside of the European Union, such as Georgia and Ukraine (what Russia refers to as its "near abroad").
I agree with you that we definitely do not want another Stalin...or maybe even another Putin (not to suggest that Putin is evil like Stalin was, but he sure is intent on throwing Russia's weight around and supplying nuclear technology to Iran). Personally, I think that Russia will always be outside of Europe's institutions, and be troublesome for both Europe and America.
My own view on Russia is that they would be better served worrying about the dire situation in their own country, and leave other countries alone.
I believe that the countries of eastern Europe will not have to worry too much about Russia in the future.
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; sorry. 
!!!!!
and I must admit you expressed exactly what I had in mind too. You wrote what I had in my heart, beautiful!
compared to Czech beer (try for instance Gambrinus, buddy)!.But, unfortunately, our beer is so good that SabMiller 
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