The original news article is totally misleading. They said the father "forced" them to marry so they eloped. Why elope is marriage was what the family supposedly wanted? Apparently the only ones they were eloping from was the US Embassy.

This was no mistake. They BOTH said, they were single when they were actually married. If they had done that while filing taxes, assistance forms or any other goverment form, it would have been considered fraud. Why is this case any different? I know that some immigration forms might be complicated (actually, the process can be complicated but the forms not so much), but this was a simple question: Are you married? YES or NO.

quote:

Do we want our kids digging in the trash?

See, the problem is, Davdah, most of us here can't even fathom our kids having to dig through the trash. You're worried that if we allow some people from third world countries in, that our kids will be digging through the trash? No - most of these people just want a shot at a better life. Most of them are not criminals! Admit it, Davdah. Most folks who live here are so spoiled, they couldn't spell the word poverty. They just sit up on their pedestals and look the other way saying "it's not my problem". Well, if you are one of those, I feel sorry for you.

I'm not saying if we let some people in it will cause a national famine. We need to keep restrictions in place otherwise we will end up like some third world country.

How do you define spoiled? Is it spoiled that our kids aren't starving? We don't have to worry about being unjustifiably taken away in the middle of the night? That we have the opportunity to create a better life for ourselves? I don't think so. Privileged perhaps, but not spoiled. But to keep that privilege worth something it needs to be kept in check.

Not everyone who wants to enter will be able to. Just the same as not everyone can buy a house. Most everyone wants to. It wouldn't justify stealing one if you could. But they can in Mexico. Its the people who make the country. If we let enough in from those undesirable countries ours will become like theirs, undesirable.

quote:

Its the people who make the country. If we let enough in from those undesirable countries ours will become like theirs, undesirable.

That's where we disagree, totally. The people in these countries aren't being given a chance by their corrupt governments. Our country is strong, Davdah. It doesn't stand a chance of becoming a third world country. This country has so much to offer in the way of freedom and opportunity, if given the chance, the people from other countries could migrate here freely, they could begin a new chapter in their lives. Their kids and grandkids will have hope to live the kind of lives we are accustomed to. After all, we need the work force, right? You can't deny that. But these folks have no legal way to migrate to this country. Our government silently acknowledges that we need the labor - it's all about big business. So, why don't they come out with some workable and fair legislation to accommodate both the businesses who need the workers and the people who want to come here and work? It doesn't sound like rocket science to me.

So what's the point of talking about how grand lie the Servanos told if you know the laws are harsh. They are harsh, ok, designed in a sophisticated intricate code to prevent as many people from immigrating as possible.
So what's the point of bashing the immigrants? Boo Hoo! They broke the immigration laws.
So what?
Go get a life morons. (not you PUSC)
I don't care one bit if they lied and good for them. Go Servanos!

it is not surprising that EET iperson applauds lying to our embassy and border officials...after all, that's what she did. If this eet spawns brats, it will be a sad day for the human gene pool....they will be genetically programmed to lie..
fraudsters should never be rewarded...that makes dealing with these kind of lowlifes easy....just deport their butts (and take iperson with them)..this has nothing to do with 'fairness'...after all, who committed the fraud? The USG? (no) the Servanos? (yes)...game over.

quote:

Originally posted by Cayita:
The original news article is totally misleading. They said the father "forced" them to marry so they eloped. Why elope is marriage was what the family supposedly wanted? Apparently the only ones they were eloping from was the US Embassy.

This was no mistake. They BOTH said, they were single when they were actually married. If they had done that while filing taxes, assistance forms or any other goverment form, it would have been considered fraud. Why is this case any different? I know that some immigration forms might be complicated (actually, the process can be complicated but the forms not so much), but this was a simple question: Are you married? YES or NO.

The father was a disciplinarian which means the father was strict. If you did wrong, you got punished severely, not cuddled or given a "time out." You had to adhere to a strict order on how to do things and adhere to the social strata of the time. And his discernment would give you the guilty feeling of a lifetime. None of thes means a forced marriage. That is what Davdah mentioned, not the article. And eloping is a spur of the moment action, not premeditated. What we do not know is the reason or reasons for that eloping. It amy have something to do with the decision by USCIS or it may not. But adding "your so called facts" into the article so that you can feel comfortable about your political theory is what I call ignorant and mental laziness. Additionally, when they filled out the forms in 1978, they were SINGLE! What is not known is the exact procedures when they entered the country. Did they fill out the forms or did they not. Did they have an interview at the Embassy or did they not. They did have some sort of "interview" when they arrived at the US, but again, the enforcement was lax at that time.\

What you are doing CAyita is that you are assuming facts which have not been entered into evidence. Well, so much you being a lawyer and all.

quote:

Originally posted by davdah:
I'm not saying if we let some people in it will cause a national famine. We need to keep restrictions in place otherwise we will end up like some third world country.

How do you define spoiled? Is it spoiled that our kids aren't starving? We don't have to worry about being unjustifiably taken away in the middle of the night? That we have the opportunity to create a better life for ourselves? I don't think so. Privileged perhaps, but not spoiled. But to keep that privilege worth something it needs to be kept in check.

Not everyone who wants to enter will be able to. Just the same as not everyone can buy a house. Most everyone wants to. It wouldn't justify stealing one if you could. But they can in Mexico. Its the people who make the country. If we let enough in from those undesirable countries ours will become like theirs, undesirable.

It depends on how you define restrictions. If you define restrictions which you are excluded from entering the country to include not only those who want to, but could afford to, then the restrictions are too excessive. Or to use your analogy, only those who could afford a $6 million house can only enter the country, would you say the restrictions are too excessive? Or we could do what the US did in the past, base it on race, natinality, or ethnicity? Furthermore, those who may want to enter the US may never make the choice to acutally follow through the dream for one reason or another.

Spoiled? We can look at the dot come industry of the 1990's as an example, which computer programmers would make easily $100k for some of the simplest programming projects. Nowadays, those same computer programmers who could only perfrom simple tasks complain that a $40k salary is "slave wages." Or how about paying teenagers $12 an hour because we need a "living wage." Or how about parents buying their kids every toy known to man and Santa and the kids are still not satisfied. Would you call that spoiled? Or how about some people on this board who think Americans should have first preference of a job irregardless of their job skills. Is that spoiled? And as privileged, we live in a privileged society where we are free to think, to pursue our dreams without regard of where we come from, who our parents are, or our social strata, and free to pursue our religion without being harassed by the government or society.

Finally, undesirable countries? How in the hell do you define "undesirable countries?" This is an ethnic and/or racial slur, Davadah. So, is Indonesia an undesireable country? What about Japan? China? Brazil? Or Greece? Or South Africa? Korea? Vietnam? in each of these countries that I have named, their histories far outlive the short history of the United States, even before when we became a country. As for Mexico, you might want to go see a play called "Las Posadas." it might enlighten you, but then again, it might not. Or perhaps a website called Stormfront.

The restrictions placed depend a lot on what this country needs. Or in some cases what other countries need. For example. The J1 program. Most participants have a 2 yr return rule requirement. Some can get a waiver, others not. A doctor usually can't because they are most needed in their home country. If we needed more unskilled entry level labor then those doors would be more accessible. At the moment it is being stifled. I would guess because we have enough or too much. If we needed lawyers or doctors then the restrictions would be loosened up for them. It is just a matter of what serves this country's interest. That is the over riding theme of the program. Immigration is a privilege, not a right. Everyone needs to keep that in mind.


The example of programmers making over 100k a year is a good one. Not so much for this. But it demonstrates supply and demand. If an ability is in short supply it will get a higher wage. If there are too many then the overall wage drops. Just like in construction. There are too many and the prevailing wage has gone down. I don't know too many parents that buy their kids every toy available. But, what if they did? So what. Is that such a terrible thing. Is it fair that Bill Gates has the money he has and someone else doesn't? In this culture you bet it is. This is a capitalist driven country. You can either cry about your meager pay check or do something about it. At least you have the opportunity to. Your only roadblock is in the mirror.

I knew the undesirable countries comment would draw commentary. Yes, for me Indonesia is an undesirable country. Given a choice I would not want to live there. Neither Mexico, China, Russia, Ukraine, Japan or most any other country. I live near Mexico and have been there countless times. Was married at one point to a women from there. I don't need to see a movie to understand their culture or way of life. Point is, how did those countries get the way they are? In the end the fault rests on its inhabitants. If you move everyone from one town to another does anyone think the peoples character will change? Probably not for most. Their problems will move with them. They will do what they did before. As for the Servanos. Well, as I said, if any of you have been to the cities I mentioned you would know what I meant. Olongapo is second only to Sodom or Gamorrah. Not to say they are like that. But to anyone who thinks people from that country have untouchable virtue need to look again.

There are always exceptions. For example, Mike. The one thing that impressed me about him is he started a business and had success with it. For people who embrace our way of life and make it their own I have no problem with. However, if someone refuses to assimilate, waives their former country's flag in my face, and refuses to speak English I have no pity when they are dragged back across the border.

Another different example is Iperson. A Polish women who applauds breaking our laws. What other laws would she feel justified in breaking? Is it part of the Polish persona to not respect law and order? Or is she an isolated case. Their country is not that well off and is corrupt etc. Neither the dirt, air, or water is causing the poor living conditions they have. You have to be a person to lack a moral compass or be corrupt.

Why let anyone in at all? That is what our good people at USCIS do for a living. Separate the weat from the chaff. If your worthy then you may pass. If not, well.

quote:

The restrictions placed depend a lot on what this country needs. Or in some cases what other countries need. For example. The J1 program. Most participants have a 2 yr return rule requirement. Some can get a waiver, others not. A doctor usually can't because they are most needed in their home country. If we needed more unskilled entry level labor then those doors would be more accessible. At the moment it is being stifled. I would guess because we have enough or too much. If we needed lawyers or doctors then the restrictions would be loosened up for them. It is just a matter of what serves this country's interest. That is the over riding theme of the program. Immigration is a privilege, not a right. Everyone needs to keep that in mind.

If certain conditions are met, then the two year residency requirement is a good reasonable restriction. But like all laws in the US, there are exceptions to those restrictions. The reason for those exceptions is to allow the law to be flexible to the needs of the applicant or petitioner. US law cannot, nor should they, attempt to conceive or predict every scenario because that is an impossibility as well as it makes the law even more complicated as it is. Thus, if more young people choose science, math, or the medical field as compared to other countries, the US would not have the brain drain it has now and the reason for those exceptions with the J-1 program. Thus, one of our must undeveloped resources are our collegiate educational system. The key is to create incentives so that scholars, students, and professional, but highly sought after, potential immigrants can remain in the US with minimal complexity to the applicant and petitioner. Similarly, the US needs those low or unskilled workers since a majority of Americans do not want nor wish to perform remedial tasks. Increasing the wage, such as increasing the minimum wage, will not solve the problem. The socioeconomic factors include more options for the teenagers, negative perceptions by society and individuals, technology incentives, and a lack of integrity being taught at the schools. We have lost what hard work really means in this country, that is, self reliance, but self reliance is not isolationism. It has been misinterpreted that way.

quote:

I knew the undesirable countries comment would draw commentary. Yes, for me Indonesia is an undesirable country. Given a choice I would not want to live there. Neither Mexico, China, Russia, Ukraine, Japan or most any other country. I live near Mexico and have been there countless times. Was married at one point to a women from there. I don't need to see a movie to understand their culture or way of life. Point is, how did those countries get the way they are? In the end the fault rests on its inhabitants. If you move everyone from one town to another does anyone think the peoples character will change? Probably not for most. Their problems will move with them. They will do what they did before. As for the Servanos. Well, as I said, if any of you have been to the cities I mentioned you would know what I meant. Olongapo is second only to Sodom or Gamorrah. Not to say they are like that. But to anyone who thinks people from that country have untouchable virtue need to look again.

The use of undesirables is more of a ploy on racism than it is a ploy on nationalism or patriotism, Davdah. Each country, including the United States has advantages and disadvantages on society, individuals, and living conditions. What I can do with $50,000 in one country is different of what I can do with it in another country. And if you grew up in one country, you could not have gotten to this point if you lived in one country instead of another. Furthermore, the ploy about it’s the individual’s fault is a copout. Again, political, economic, social, financial, and religious perspectives play a role in how a society and an individual is perceived, identified, educated, and standard of living. Those circumstances are unique to that country and that country alone and are not transferred from one place to another. Societies can adapt to the needs of the inhabitants, but whatever problems may arise. Take a look at the various democracies around the globe. Even though European countries have, for the most part, similar representative governments, the problems, characteristics, philosophy, and challenges are unique. There may be some similarities, but not an exact comparison.

Now, davdah, I have been to countries outside the United States just as you have. The difference, my dear boy, is that I went with my eyes open instead of shut like you have done. I have not been to the Filipino city, but have been to Manila and Cebu City. I have been to almost every border town along my home state as well as Southern, Central, Eastern, Western, and Northern Mexico. I have seen the best and worst in each country. You cannot idolize the KKK as a representation of the United States and its inhabitants than you can with the city you described in representing that particular country and its inhabitants. I use movies to describe particular aspects of a culture or to explain a point. Movies identify and define a culture. That is why Hollywood movies are so interesting to people who live outside the United States. And the same can be said of other country’s industries as well.

Oh please. Ploys, racism, conspiracies, it never ends. I meant what I said in the context I said it. Not anything else. Nothing was contrived or needed to be deduced or interpreted. Why do you feel the compulsion to negatively label people who disagree with your argument? The amount of effort your expending trying to guess at mine or anyone else's motives is wasted.

I don't need to have simple economics explained concerning what 50k will buy here versus there. Where ever there is. I understand it, even to the extent of inflation, echange rates, interest, foreign investment, etc.

Is it really that difficult to accept the fact that someone wants to stay in their own country because it is their own country? It is somehow racist because I don't want to live in Indonesia? The wife doesn't want to live there either. I guess she is a nazi. Oh wait, you said kkk. But actually they had a problem with the commies. Another story for another time. I'll pick her up a brown shirt, white robe, and a red had today. Did I cover all the bases?

Your looking for evil where it doesn't exist and overlooking it where it does. You say you have seen the best and worst. Really, how good and bad have you seen it? I'm talking about human nature not the cleanliness of the streets.

A monkey can figure out that any so called study that has stats so far in the extreem is obviously biased. Meaning, its probably bogus. That is the very short hand theme of what I had to say about both of them.

If you really need to feel important or smart do it where it might actually matter.

davdeh: every some illegal alien supporter cannot win their 'arguments' in favor of illegals (which is 100% of the time) they try to haul out the racism card, or compare Minutemen to the KKK,etc....yet not one of these misguided double-digit IQ-types has ever been to tell us exactly what RACE illegals are??? If they are not one, then how can we, the ones who do not support illegal immgration (nor illegal aliens) be racist? Come on...what 'race' are illegals??

s12 you just go a head and get a vibrator and make sure fits real good in to your rear end.
You will love it

babybeh: I'd love to try it, but I can't seem to move your tongue out of the way.....mmmmm

S12, I used to think people like Hudson had some legitimate argument to their belief. After being around here a while and seeing the discussions I am not sure what to think anymore. When their personal wishes ***ps against the law they play the race card or whatever card they can find to dodge the issue. Right and wrong mean nothing. We had disagreements on issues. You want all waivers dropped and a much more strict protocol in immigration. I'm a little looser in my beliefs. At least we can agree to disagree on some specific points. But I do believe we agree that the law should be obeyed even if it isn't what we personally want.


In the other thread I really thought anyone could see that both reports were very opinionated with a heavy bias. If this were presented by a grade school class I could see being shnookered into believing it. But these guys? The blinders are on and common sense has just left the building. I don't want to think they have ulterior motives but it is getting more and more difficult to ignore. The scary thought is what those ulterior motives probably are.

I'm all for discussing issues and we shouldn't always agree. Would be boring as hell if we did. When a participant has to resort to attacking the person and not the argument its a lost cause. I can tolerate some name calling. Hopefully people's skin isn't too thin. Should be expected when opinions are very diametrically opposed. But some of this goes beyond disagreement to the point of idiotic slander.

I do more than pay lip service to that idea. The site that many here love to hate, immigrate2us, is user funded. I disagree with a lot they say, actually most of it. But I have donated my $ to keep them up and running. More than some of their bovines make in a month. Some here would think I am traitor to the cause but free speech is not limited to what I want to hear. Hudson will probably call me a liar since I doubt he has contributed anything out of his wallet to anyone. There are a few people here who frequent both sites and I welcome them checking the facts.

Now that I just shot down his theory on my kkk membership. You ain't so bright after all Hudson. I don't think your old enough to call me 'my dear boy' either. A racial opportunity exists here. If I said that to him he would be making references to 'boy' in his slanderous come back. Or is there some other intent? G a y, perhaps? I don't know, I'm not up to speed on that culture. Sorry, I am like a diode, one way only.

The reference to Hollywood films as being a reference at all. Oh God, you must be kidding. Hollywood, land of make believe, fictional stories, plastic and fake. Anyone with half a brain must have their BS detector running in the red.

Make sure don't bite me too hard otherwise I will not be able to make babies s12

if I squeeze my cheeks together, I can hear you choking, babybeh.

Feds Delay Deportation of Immigrant Couple in Marriage Flap

Friday, December 0