Hudson, you write:

quote:

...The government's case was simple: did Mr Servano check single when he should have checked married. yes or no?...

I agree, this was a simple case. However, you want to treat it as a clerical mistake, such as putting a wrong date or misspelling. That is not the case here. If they did not check "single" they would not be eligible for the immigration benefits they've sought. So it was "material" misstatement which by its nature was fraudulent. If you can compare it to anything it would be akin to answering a question "Are you a U.S. citizen?" - as yes, while in fact you are not. It can be only a check off box but checking the wrong one has a far reaching consequences.

But, for the sake of an argument, let's say that it did happen inadvertently. What now? They still would be ineligible for the LPR status based on the facts, i.e. deportable. The only remedy available to them would be to adjust to LPR based on some other grounds of eligibility but only after deportation and the attending 5 or 10-years ban. So, even assuming the most charitable interpretation, the end result would be the same.

I beg to disagree with your assertion that the IJs operate within "a very restrictive administrative scope". The administrative procedure is in fact much more relaxed in comparison to the criminal or even civil procedure and IJ has at his disposal many tools to alleviate the unfavorable outcome of the case if, in his opinion, it's unjustifiable.

And, finally, your argument regarding the denial of a waiver of deportation triggered by "aggravated felony" is a bit misplaced. A felony, by its nature is "premeditated" in a sense that it is "willful", as you may remember, it requires "mens rea", that is - the intent to commit a crime or, at least, realize that one's action may result in a criminal outcome.

I personally can see two minus factors that work against the couple.

First is the technical misrepresentation of their civil status (single/married toggle switch) at the time of visa issuance, and second, the prevailing political climate at this time.

We can't blame the courts to concur with the USCIS's determination of misrepresentation (or fraud, to be more blatant) because there's no other way to look at it. There's no middle ground still when it comes to being married or not, immigration-wise.

And the holding that the couple twisted the regulations on their favor made them guilty beyond doubt that they shouldn't be here in the first place, and their stay of many years so productive as they turned out to be, miserably don't count in the existing patchwork immigration laws.

The USCIS enforces them, while the courts interpret them - and neither of the two agencies could change any.

Whereas, even though Sen. Specter, et. al. could pass a private bill to save the couple seems to be a far-fetched possibility simply because of the media hype that this case has already taken on.

To either party, it would be feared to work with a fatal ripple effect to the detriment of the political campaigns of their presidential hopefuls.

Hence, to let go is the more convenient truth of the matter.

I know that at the back of the minds of "some of us," we look at it in awe. That it can't be true or it shouldn't happen. Because the government is so strict in some cases; lax and inefficient sometimes; and totally blind with the magnitude under their noses.

Ahh well, law is harsh but that's the law, and it's a matter of when and how whose good fortune runs out at any given instance.

Moreover, it requires no more than a 5th grader's intellect to surmise that the current immigration system is desperately broken. I wonder why some Americans feign to be not smarter than a 5th grader all though these years!

quote:

Originally posted by Hudson:

quote:

What the hell are you taking about? More 'I'm Mr. perfect ramblings I see.' At least your numbering them now.

I have neither said I was or was not perfect. That is the allusion you created.

quote:

What the hell are you taking about? More 'I'm Mr. perfect ramblings I see.' At least your numbering them now.

(comment # 1)
You never lived with anyone prior to marriage? Never had S e x before marriage? Your wife wore white true to form for her marriage and you of course were as virtuous?

(comment # 2)
If you had a lot which obviously you don't you would give it a second thought to leave yourself vulnerable to the one sided divorce laws.

(comment # 3)
I vilified her customs? I haven't a clue what your even talking about with that one.

The point is that you are asking, or requesting, immigrants to perfomr or adhere to duties that most Americans cannot even do in this lifetime. That is the reality. The fact is the Servanos made a mistake, a costly mistake nevertheless. But the reprocity condemning them like a mass murderer is also a violation by the "Rights of Man." This is the problem with technicalities along with extreme punishment of deportation. This is what most immigration advocates call immigration law not in coherence with society today.

quote:

Where do you get off saying anyone can never understand anything? People like you are beyond amazing. You have zero tolerance for a differing opinion.

Be careful, you are describing yourself more than you are describing anyone else.

quote:

And again you failed to understand the comments I made. Ok, I will spell it out so even you can understand it. Since the article made comments about honor and dicipline there must be something to it. Why mention it unless it had to do with some other facts, not given. Why did they elope? The obvious conclusion is they were probably sleeping together and her dad insisted they get married. She may have been pregnant to boot. Who cares. I'm not passing judgment about that. It merely fits the empty holes in the story. Doctor or not a stiff you know what has no conscience.

Cayita is the one who made the comment about honor, not the article. You resopned to Cayita. Given that fact, I sued the motif of honor as a backdrop that most Americans, if placed in the same predictament, will never be able to live up to, but expect, and sometimes demand, an immigrant to do the same. This is what I call hypocrisy. I sued your information, living with a girl prior to marriage, prenuptials, and the custom of taking the shoes off, as an example to show, if placed in the exact same situation, you would not be able to meet those unreasonable expectations. This was the point of my response to not only you, but Cayita and others.

What you also thought was it was *** related, getting the girl pregnant because they eloped; yet you know nothing, zilch, of the society or culture there at that time. It was vastly different compared to today. Eloping, in a society like the Philippines, and especially with a discplinary father is not because they were sleeping together, but because society expected them to get married. The father said, "if you are going to spend that much time together, you might as well be wed." The connotation means they were dating and spending time like husband and wife. To put it in terms you can understand, it would be like after 10 dates, the father expected you to marry the girl. It was not about *** per se. Your response shows where your mind was, in the gutter. And your response does not fit the empty holes, just the political idealogy to fit your assertion.

About perfect, you never admit to mistakes or offer an apology when its deserved. You know what I'm talking about. By the way, its illusion not allusion. Use your spell checker.


As for the rest. I've been to the Philippines on several occasions. I think I know a little about their culture. The fathers there don't expect you to marry their daughter after 10 dates. Maybe if the girl is pregnant they do. Even then its optional. The honor had to do with the light cast on the father. There was a reason for it which will probably come out later. They don't make references like that for nothing. It will be to justify something.

Its insane that people put so much weight on so called tradition of other countries. Worse yet, believe the self proclaimed honor, dignity , etc that supposedly exists outside our borders. As if any of them really abide by it. For the most part they don't. Mexicans don't all wear sombreros and not all Philippine women are virgins. Please,.. get a grip. The rest of the world is trying to be like us. If their traditions and so forth were of such great importance they surely wouldn't be racing to come here.

Taking shoes off, I really don't care and neither does she. That is why I got her a hoover. So much for tradition.

As someone else pointed out. They were both graduate students and should be able to read a simple form. To say its confusing is a load of rubbish. Perhaps to an illiterate cabbage picker but not anyone with at least a minimal education. The fact is they got caught and more than likely the entire family was in on it. Oops, more dishonor perhaps. What is that legal principle? Oh yes, Ignorance is not a valid defense. I think it even applies to doctors.

I'm sure this will irritate a few members here, but the Servanos were not taken into custody today. Story below:


Salvacion Servano, seated left, and Pedro Servano, seated right, speak with reporters Monday, Nov. 26, 2007, alongside their children, left to right, Steven, 22, Shappine, 24, Peter, 15, and Phoebe, 13, at the law offices of Ann Ruben in Philadelphia, about the status of their deportation proceedings. The Filipino doctor and his wife, who face deportation because of a long-ago mistake on their citizenship paperwork, reported to immigration authorities Monday but were allowed to return home while their lawyers seek political support that would allow the couple to remain in the U.S. (AP Photo/Mark Stehle)
Pa. Pair Seek Help to Fight Deportation
By KATHY MATHESON – 9 minutes ago

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A doctor and his wife who face deportation because of a long-ago mistake on their immigration paperwork reported to federal authorities Monday but were allowed to return home while lawyers seek political support for them to remain in the U.S.

Dr. Pedro Servano and his wife, Salvacion, obeyed an order to meet with Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials in Philadelphia and were told to report back in 60 days, attorney Gregg Cotler said. No deportation date was set, he said.

"I think that's very hopeful," Cotler said.

The Servanos, parents of four U.S. citizens and prominent members of their central Pennsylvania community, could be deported to their native Philippines because of a change in their marital status during their visa-application process more than 20 years ago.

The Servanos were single in 1978 when they applied for U.S. visas. They did not receive them until after they were married, but U.S. officials were not notified of the change in their marital status.

Immigration officials noticed the discrepancy when the Servanos applied to be U.S. citizens in 1990. They accused the couple of misrepresentation and began deportation proceedings, Cotler said.

All appeals have been exhausted, and their last hope is for Congress to pass special legislation allowing them to stay, Cotler said.

The 60-day reprieve "gives us more time to examine all of the facts in this case and see what options are available through Immigration and Customs Enforcement," said Democratic Rep. Christopher Carney, who represents the couple's hometown of Selinsgrove.

Sens. Arlen Specter and Bob Casey also said they were working with the Servanos and immigration officials.

ICE spokesman Michael Gilhooly could not discuss specifics but said the Servanos were placed under certain restrictions Monday and allowed to return home. They were also informed of their obligation to begin making arrangements to leave the country related to the government's final deportation order, he said.

Hosted by Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Yey! Great news. Let's keep our fingers crossed everything goes well and they are allowed to stay in the country.
(keeping fingers crossed- but how am I going to keep them crossed and type at the same time?)

I find this story extremely disturbing for a number of reasons

1. A family from the Phillipines knows better than ANY FAMILY ON THE PLANET exactly HOW to get to the US. Its a part of the culture and CHAIN MIGRATION is an instrinsic part of Phillipiono life. The parents and the children the now adults asking for mercy in this case knew exactly what they were doing because they would have had to get in the back of the line as "married children of US Citizen parents" VS "unmarried children of US Citizen parents". So they kept the marriage hush-hush hoping it would go unnoticed.

2. This "mistake" was understandable as the folly of youth, and would be forgiveable as such if they WOULD OWN UP TO IT. Continuing the pretense of "mistake" at this point stinks.

3. Servano family lucked up and found a sympathetic press partner to "market their cause", and because Dr. Servano has been able to be here in the US banking cash he can afford a Prestigous Law Firm while thousands of other cases, many involving US Citizen mixed status families come to mind where there was an actual "mistake" that has been made and those families are suffering more than Servanos' because they are broken and do not have the $$$ to buy influence on the Hill.

Servano is self serving it appears because he has not joined the existing organizations to 'lift all the boats' only a "PRIVATE BILL" with his name and his wifes on it.

But the case is a lesson for anyone in this situation, get a sympathetic press partner if you want to get out of Immigration Hot Water and perhaps you can get let off the hook with a "special law" just for you !!!!

In the first article it said they have been living the American life for 23 years. They have one child that is 24. Hmmmm. Maybe there is something to the shotgun wedding theory after all. Anyone ever been to Subic, Olongapo, or Angeles. Very virtuous people.

Would be interesting to see the true facts on this. If it were nothing more than a simple mistake I doubt such a big stink would be raised. There is more to it.

If the child is 24, he would have been born in 1983, right? She came here in 1982 and they were married prior to her coming here. So, I don't think there was need for a shotgun wedding. I have read numerous variations of this story and I haven't seen anything that appears to be strange or would raise an eyebrow.

If our immigration folks have taken 17 years to decide on the Servanos fate, I'd say this proves how broken our immigration system really is. If they had decided to deport them 17 years ago, they would have been able to establish themselves and raise their children elsewhere. That would have been fair. But to give them the boot after all these years really $ucks.

why don't you take them into your house, then? These two are just visa cheats, dressed up like doctors....liars and cheats...and as the previous poster observed, Filipinos know only too well what is required to lie and cheat their way to the US of A...this was not an 'honorable' mistake, as some moron would have you believe (oops...sorry proudusc,for revealing who you really are) but a planned piece of chicanery to defraud the US government of a benefit they were not entitled to receive....

Its very diffucult for me to accept the premise that 2 people over the span of two years, made the SAME MISTAKE. They got married in the Phillipines, and one got the VISA approval before the other.

As with all I-130's there was an interview at the interview the relationship with the pettitioner is "verified". Since they both were pettitioned for by parents in the category of 'unmarried child of US Citizen" they each in a separate interview had to 'forget" the marital relatiosnship at the time of the interview.

It also seems the Biographical data Form that collects the family information was not up to date or corrected or not verified at the interview.

It appears from the story that they lost in Appeals for that reason. They have gotten lucky with some "good spin" from the Press, but at the end of the day the Rural America does not need Physicians or Spouses as badly as Rural Phillipines.

Not buying this story

quote:

Originally posted by Someone12:
why don't you take them into your house, then? These two are just visa cheats, dressed up like doctors....liars and cheats...and as the previous poster observed, Filipinos know only too well what is required to lie and cheat their way to the US of A...this was not an 'honorable' mistake, as some moron would have you believe (oops...sorry proudusc,for revealing who you really are) but a planned piece of chicanery to defraud the US government of a benefit they were not entitled to receive....

WOW! Someone12 you still come here ranting s h i t against Immigrants… Let me ask you this, did you eat well today? I’m sure you did otherwise you wouldn’t have the energy to rant so much BS.
Here’s an idea for you S12, why don’t you run for President “Assuming you were born in the U.S…” and as you start your fascism campaign against Immigrants, think of what your idol Adolf Hitler did to annihilate the Jews, in your case it’d be all Illegal Immigrants would it not? Did you know Hitler claimed to have gotten his inspiration for the “final solution” from the extermination of Native Americans in the U.S?
If you know anything about us Humans and/or Human evolution is that when we face difficulties we will do anything that’s necessary to survive…
Adolf Hitler was an idiot and a coward! Which one are you?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: UnitedStatesDude,

Whats the most disturbing about most anti immigrant posters on this forum is how indignant they are for any immigrant trying to keep their family together by "going around" the tough laws in place. The most disturbing are those who know how draconian and inhuman those laws are and yet they are defending them.
Just because they were created and put into law does it mean that the law is right and unquestionable?
Maybe you should start looking at your own country's laws before you judge those who break those inhuman draconian and utopian laws.

I say- break all the U.S. immigration laws because they STINK!

quote:

Originally posted by republicanwriter:
I find this story extremely disturbing for a number of reasons

1. A family from the Philippines knows better than ANY FAMILY ON THE PLANET exactly HOW to get to the US. Its a part of the culture and CHAIN MIGRATION is an instrinsic part of Phillipiono life. The parents and the children the now adults asking for mercy in this case knew exactly what they were doing because they would have had to get in the back of the line as "married children of US Citizen parents" VS "unmarried children of US Citizen parents". So they kept the marriage hush-hush hoping it would go unnoticed.

2. This "mistake" was understandable as the folly of youth, and would be forgiveable as such if they WOULD OWN UP TO IT. Continuing the pretense of "mistake" at this point stinks.

3. Servano family lucked up and found a sympathetic press partner to "market their cause", and because Dr. Servano has been able to be here in the US banking cash he can afford a Prestigous Law Firm while thousands of other cases, many involving US Citizen mixed status families come to mind where there was an actual "mistake" that has been made and those families are suffering more than Servanos' because they are broken and do not have the $$$ to buy influence on the Hill.

Servano is self serving it appears because he has not joined the existing organizations to 'lift all the boats' only a "PRIVATE BILL" with his name and his wifes on it.

But the case is a lesson for anyone in this situation, get a sympathetic press partner if you want to get out of Immigration Hot Water and perhaps you can get let off the hook with a "special law" just for you !!!!

I would disagree on several points.

1. First, the generalization about Filipinos knowing US immigration laws where even most USC don't know them is as preposterous as blaming one political party for all the past mistakes this country has made. Although it may be said that some may know some of the procedures, like the father or mother for instance, do not generalize them as a know it all and it was premeditated.

2. Instructions to immigration forms from INS or the State Department have a lot to be desired. Personally, I think they are written very poorly and do not explain how to fill out the specific lines. They do explain who can and cannot fill out the forms and provide instructions to some of the more complicated or ambiguous lines, but that is about all. From my professional experience, I have found some of the most complicated IRS forms more versed in instructions than some of the simplest INS instructions to those specified forms.

3. The immigration procedures were much more different in the 1980's than they are now. It was not until the Immigration Act of 1990 that better enforcement procedures at the Embassy/Consulate, INS, and Border Patrol was revamped, improved, and expanded than in past years. Even my wife, who care here prior to 9/11 did not face the level of scrutiny that immigrants face today. This is not blaming the immigration system nor any agency, but just pointing out that we are looking in hindsight, not placing ourselves at that time reference.

4. From the time line, when the forms were filled out, they marked single, and correctly, since they were not married. But because of the wait time, they eventually married in 1980 and Mrs. Servano came first followed by her husband. Also from the time line, they renewed their green card at least once before applying for Citizenship. What is not known from the article is whether they had an interview at the Embassy or not. Again, the procedures in the 1980's were different than today. And when I talked to a couple of immigration attorneys, they said the enforcement was very lax.

5. This case boils down really whether it was fraud or willful misrepresentation of a material facts. The question was whether it was intentional. Under the time lapse when they applied, the circumstances which they got married, when the visas were received, and the fact that the law changed significantly in 1998, i find it ambiguous that one cannot prove fraud or willful misrepresentation of material facts. It was misrepresentation, but it was not willful from the article. But I would like to see the government's initial evidence against the Sevanos to study more in depth.

FEDORENKO v. UNITED STATES

iperson, I am not anti-immigrant if you are referring to me. What irks me about Servano's case is the "spin" the Media puts on it when its been in the courts for years and decided by an Immigration Judge.

Tough break for the Servano's but they are ONE OF THREE MILLION folks in a similar boat. There are a large number of these cases where punitive Immigration Law disrupts and destroys a family. Servano should not rise above and get "special" or "private legislation" that in my book is C R A P.

Our legislators should address the REAL ISSUE which as you suggest is broken Immigration Law.

One family getting a special dispensation really stinks, IMHO even more so because this family is of "MEANS".

The Rich connected Immigrants get a "private bill" while the poor working class 10 year bar cases live in separate countries because they cannot afford high powered attorneys.

Hudson,

I too would like to see the Governments evidence and I sincerely hope if a private bill is passed for these folks 3 million other families sue the government for equitable justice for thier own families.

RW, lots of people are getting preferential treatment everywhere, especially in America. Why be hypocritical?
For the family all that matters is their future and their family. Why should they be concerned about 3 other million in the same shoes?
It's not about idealism, but about harsh reality for this particular family.

I think what RW said makes the case. Since they would have been interviewed individually, had individual petitions filed etc, it is definitely not a mistake. They both did it with the intent of committing fraud. The entire family was in on it since their parents were the ones filling out the forms too saying they were single. I wonder about the dates given for ages etc. Since this piece has an obvious slant to it it wouldn't be beyond the writer to fudge the dates a bit to hide the obvious. If anyone thinks they thought it was no big deal these people would not have chosen to hide it. They knew full well up front what they were doing.

Not written in this biased article but that is what all the hub bub is about and why they are being deported. Simply put, intentional misrepresentation. What else did he lie about? What about his education in PI? Is that all up to par? If they let them slide they will be required to allow everyone else who pulled the same stunt slide as well. If it were really just a clerical mistake I wouldn't mind forgiving it, but lying?

No one cares where they are from. Pi, Ukraine, or BF Egypt, doesn't matter. It shouldn't matter what his profession is either. At least to the extent of granting any special dispensation. If anything it should be held against him. Since he is better educated than the average Joe he should know better.