I am asking anyone who has family members who are illegal to join together. For too long we have been silent out of fear. If we do not stand up and be heard, the anti-immigration rants will be the only thing making noise. I understand how dangerous and risky it is. But, we as citizens and legal residents have rights. We have the same rights as everyone else in this country. We should not have to live in constant fear. But, I will say this to anyone who fusses about these people on public assistance. What do you think will happen to all of these families when some of the financial support dissappears? The people left will be on public assistance. Oh! They are citizens so they can be entitled to it. So the rest of you rant on and on. And the ones of us left, after you destroy our families, will be in line receiving all the public benefits we can get at your expense. Who knows maybe we can make more money that way. So I say "MADAR". Mothers against Deportations and Raids. If we do not speak out, we will loose our families. It is time to take a stand. I am tired of hearing the same bunch of bull come out of the mouths of these cable tv news shows. They act like they speak for everyone. Well, they don't speak for me. I have also sent an email to the United Nations. I would advise anyone who needs help protecting their basic human rights to do the same. For years, these major countries of the world have exploited these people for their cheap labor. They have turned their heads and pretended to enforce laws. And the citizens of these countries haven't really cared either. They liked not having to do the hard work anymore. I am sick of having to wait and have my own country treat me like I am not a citizen here. This is my country. My heritage is part Native American. Before anyone else can use that agruement. There it is. So I would prefer everyone who is not of Native American descent to get out of my country. We will decide who gets to immigrate to our country. I am really not to keen on too many whites. They think they are so superior than any other color. I prefer people like myself who were brought up to not see color, to help someone who needs it, and to treat others as I would like to be treated. I would hope that if I was having a hard time, my neighbors and friends would be there to help. I would do the same for them. No wonder so many homes are in foreclosure. Instead of working and paying the bills, everyone is on the anti-illegal band wagon. I really don't understand why people claim, "they're taking our jobs," when those people who are saying that are working or they are on a government check. If legal/illegal combination families are spilt up, that is exactly where legal families will be. Thanks you guys.

quote:

There it is. So I would prefer everyone who is not of Native American descent to get out of my country. We will decide who gets to immigrate to our country. I am really not to keen on too many whites.

Are you the Indian version of Goebbels? Better take an anthropology class. There was someone here before you.

Djim: Well, that's quite an incoherent rant. What part of ILLEGAL don't you understand exactly?

You self-righteously assert that you "were brought up to not see color, to help someone who needs it, and to treat others as I would like to be treated." What a load of BS - you're nothing but a two-faced little racist who states, in your own words, that you're "really not to keen on too many whites. They think they are so superior than any other color. I prefer people like myself." Quite apart from the fact that your English-language skills and spelling are atrocious, you fall victim to your own bigotry and sense of entitlement (how typical).

I'd also be interested to know what part of your heritage is allegedly "Native" American...and whether your "Native" American ancestors were, in fact, Mexican before they were lucky enough to become American after 1848. Of course, I'd be stunned if you actually know anything of your supposed heritage, and could barely trace your family history further than your grandparents.

How typical, also, that you see immigration within your own family as a great way for you to obtain even more welfare benefits than you get already!! Why don't you all try working for a living?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SunDevilUSA,

There are a lot of whites that think they are superior. That's a fact. There's also other media propogating how more fortunate one is if they're white(r). It's the same as an attractive man or woman getting f.u.r.ther ahead than one less attractive.

Remember years ago when blacks were in television commercials? They advertised the likes of house cleaning products being depicted of blue collar. Univision has been criticized for using so many light-complected Hispanics. In Mexico many telenovelas have darker-complected actors in roles of servitude.

Not everyone has to speak or write english perfectly. U.S.C.'s don't after graduating from U.S. schools. That doesn't make the person.

Devildol, are you 'perfect?' That's scary!

You're not interested in anything the OP has said. You thrive on critizing anybody that doesn't think like you.

What???

I didn't think you'd comprehend. Forget about it, it's too late, don't try to catch up now.

Explora: With all due respect, your posts are so irrational that they're barely even worth responding to. Quite honestly, I'm not surprised that you immediately jumped to Djim's defense - because you're both apologists for illegal aliens, you're willing to overlook, even defend, his racism and bigotry...and then you add a little racism of your own for good measure.

I admit to being a little surprised by your examples of racism, however. You say some nasty things about white people, but fail to provide any concrete examples. You then proceed to cite examples of Hispanic racism...and, what do you know, a few concrete examples spanning both America and that third-world country to our south. Of course,you must believe that it's the fault of white people in America that Mexican TV portrays light-skinned people in positions of power and influence. You're quite pathetic.

quote:

Originally posted by djim:
But, we as citizens and legal residents have rights. We have the same rights as everyone else in this country. What do you think will happen to all of these families when some of the financial support dissappears? ... after you destroy our families, This is my country. My heritage is part Native American. So I would prefer everyone who is not of Native American descent to get out of my country. I am really not to keen on too many whites. They think they are so superior than any other color. .

You are a hypocrite and a racist. You do NOT have the same rights as us, this is NOT your country, all people born here ARE Native Americans, we are NOT too keen on you people, we ARE superior to you. We did NOT destroy your families; you can go with them if you love them so much.

djim: don't get me wrong, I'm with you. I am just as frustrated as you are; maybe more. I can feel your feelings. Like you, I'm so unhappy with the division that transpires in our midst. But your ethnicity and skin color references in your posted message rendered your ideas vulnerable. Next time, try to go color blind and race blind. In so doing, you'll have a much greater leverage. More power.

quote:

Originally posted by SunDevilUSA:
Explora: With all due respect, your posts are so irrational that they're barely even worth responding to. Quite honestly, I'm not surprised that you immediately jumped to Djim's defense - because you're both apologists for illegal aliens, you're willing to overlook, even defend, his racism and bigotry...and then you add a little racism of your own for good measure.

I admit to being a little surprised by your examples of racism, however. You say some nasty things about white people, but fail to provide any concrete examples. You then proceed to cite examples of Hispanic racism...and, what do you know, a few concrete examples spanning both America and that third-world country to our south. Of course,you must believe that it's the fault of white people in America that Mexican TV portrays light-skinned people in positions of power and influence. You're quite pathetic.

If it wasn't worth responding to then why did you bother. It wouldn't bother me on iota if you did so or not.

Oh please, devildol, I wasn't defending any racism. Don't act like it's never existed. I'm stating a bloody fact that a lot of whites do think they're superior.

djim said, " I prefer people like myself who were brought up to not see color, to help someone who needs it, and to treat others as I would like to be treated." "I am sick of having to wait and have my own country treat me like I am not a citizen here." This is exactly the same type of racism going on in our country right now. If you're not aware of it then your legally blind. As far as activists are concerend, djim would be one that takes action to do something about a situation.

It appears to me s/he has experienced prejudice against his/her own self. That's been a reality and is still a reality in our present day and age. Humph! As if blacks haven't experienced any racism??? Do you not think after one has experienced racism that they are not going to be bitter? S/he said they're not too keen on white people. That wasn't saying they hated them. You act like you don't catch my drift, know what I mean?

It must be the fault of white people in America because Mexican tv portrays white people in positions of power and influence? Did I say "it's the fault" of why people? No I didn't. If I'd wanted to say that then I would've said it. I didn't cast the actual blame on anybody. Guess you read into it exactly what you want to read into things. And I know from past postings of yours that you've thrown lines like that in. Sometimes I think it's so natural for you that you don't even realize it.

Why are you always critical of OP's english writing skills? I've read where you do this over and over. I've read it being called to your attention. Why? You know many people haven't received the same education in this nation or others. You know this board also has many who are in the process of learning to speak, write and read english. Why do you always have to call attention to their english writing skills? There's also schools passing students who don't need to pass on to the next grade level. You always have to be condescending in one manner or another.

I'm pathetic? I feel equally so about you. Even more so for that matter.

I almost forgot to say this, 'Stick It!' Rah, rah, rah, stick it to devildol, rah, rah, rah, stick it to the ddol, rah, rah, rah!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: explora,

Thank you explora. As far as my writing and spelling skills, I write and speak the way I feel. Sometimes the words came out to fast. There is so much to say on the issue.
As far as experiencing the other side of prejudice, I have. Both of my parents own businesses. I am now 34 years old. For years I worked for my father and then I decided to open my own business. I recently sold that business. I was born and raised in this community. In other words, most of this people here have known me since I was in diapers. Some kept me while my mother went to work. I was raised in these peoples' homes. Like I have said before, I was raised to never look at the color of skin or the wealth of a person. Before my Dad's business, he worked 16 hours a day 6-7 days a week in a foundry and then did mechanic work on the side. My mother worked in a sewing plant. I was raised to believe the measure of a person's wealth was by the hard work they did. And yes, I have worked my fair share of hours. I have been in the fields. For years, I helped pick and shell peas, shuck corn, harvest sugar cane, dig up potatos, and even clean out the feeders in the chicken houses. So no one needs to tell me to go to work. But, getting back to the prejudice I have witnessed. When I was a lot younger, I remember overhearing a group of men laughing about hanging a black man over the side of a bridge. At that time, I couldn't not comprehend what they could find funny about that. So, I went home and ask my Dad. He told me that some men needed to make themselves feel more superior over others by using fear and intimidation. That still did not make any sense. I never really had a sense of the type of prejudice people in this community felt until 6 years ago. I got married. The first real attack came when my spouse was shot on some of our property, by someone who did not like the fact that we were together. Of course, the local law here is a joke. First, the police tried to say they had a problem with the gun and tried to say maybe it was stolen. Well, the gun was purchased from a local store, brand new. Then, the gun disappears from the evidence locker. I have also overheard some people even saying that the man who shot my spouse should have finished the job. Right after that, people I have known my whole life, who pratically help raise me, turned on me. One particular incident was when I went into a local restuarant. A woman, who's mother was my babysitter when I was younger, and her husband were sitting at a table. When I walked in she started to speak, but he gave her such a hard look that she dropped her head. He actually had the nerve to snub me. I was raised in his mother-in-law's house and his house. Apparently, he forgot that I was present in his house and witnessed what he did to his wife. But, he thinks he is better than me now. The other couple with them spoke to me. I went to school with their daughter. They were actually really nice to me. I also saw the prejudice when it came to my business. Before I was married some area customers came in. After I got married, I never saw them again. Though they do visit my Dad's business. I really don't understand these people. They have no right to judge me. I know where they come from. I know a lot of their dirty little secrets and have never opened my mouth or judged them in any way. There is only one place we will be judged and that is not here and certainly not by these people. That is just a little of what I have been dealing with in the past 6 years, not 20 or 30 years ago.

Now my spouse's job is not as good as mine. I never thought this company would tolerate the kind of backwards, red-neck, racist, incidents that have occurred on this job. My spouse asked me to spell every one of the really bad words. Words like M.F., S.*B., and so on. I asked why. My spouse said because most of the people working on the job had already learned what the people were saying and started standing up for themselves. But, then the other workers started writing the words in paint, concrete, and so on. I couldn't believe it. I raised all manner of h***. My spouse told me not to say anything because they would just fire the workers who were complaining. I understand sometimes we have to kiss a little a** to keep a job. But, no one should be talked to and degraded that way. If this company where a rapist and it violated a person, the rapist would be in jail. If it was one spouse doing this to another or to a child, it would be called abuse or domestice violence. Degraded and belittling someone may make these people feel better, but what does it to do the person who is being degraded?


By the way I don't think our *** or race are important. We are the same as every other person in this world. We get up every day, put our pants on one leg at a time. We go to work every day to try and provide something for our children and so we can slave away for the government. So you see, we are all equal.

SunDevil

I have never been treated in a racist or discriminatory way by an African-American, Asian-American, Hispanic-American, etc.

I have only experienced this kind of hatred and biotry from the white race in this community and on just about all the post on the internet.

As far as my grammar, I do apologize if it is not up to your high standards. If that is all you got out of my "rant," then I feel sorry for you.

quote:

biotr

SunDevil
was suppose to be bigotry.
I just can't help myself.

I get so annoyed at the blurring of the two words " LEGAL immigrant and ILLEGAL immigrant" they do NOT mean the same thing... There are channels present that give special concern to family and relatives of LEGAL immigrants here, the big hoohaa is over the ILLEGAL people here, why would anyone that is here legally here and gone through the process to get that status think its alright for others to bypass the system and have the same rights as everyone else?

I am myself a recent immigrant here from England, I did it the right way, it took time and money and that was the price I paid to be allowed to stay here, my journey through the system is still not over, I have yet to have the conditions taken off my residency and in the years to come, hopefully gain my citizenship.

Yes I am white, I don't consider myself superior to any particular race, creed or color, I am certainly superior to some people ( of all races, creeds and colors ) but then there are certainly people of those same groups that are superior to me.

As I understand the issue of "family" its that legal immigrants/citizens feel their family should be allowed to bypass the system, simply because they are family, if thats the case, do those same people think it would be ok for me to have some of my family come here and visit me using the VWP available to English citizens and just stay here because they are " family " I really think its crazy to use the family card in that manner... if you are in this country legally and have family that can contribute to this country, then by all means apply to have them come here, it will be easier than if they try to do it on their own merits, but DO NOT expect them to be allowed to " just walk in ".

Just my 2 cents... or is that 2 pennies

djim, would you mind remotely sharing with us what part of the U.S. you're in? I know of areas where people are of the character you have encountered. I'm so sorry to hear of what's happened.

Eeyore

Honestly, I am not trying to play the family or race card. As for being a legal resident, no I am not. I am generations of American citizens. I realize you did it the legal way. My question to you is were you desperate enough to feed your family and yourself? That is one of the major motivating factors driving illegal immigration. My major problem with this government and these immigration laws is that for years they have turned a blind-eye to this problem. An example of part of the problems with these laws is your own situation. You, yourself said, "I am myself a recent immigrant here from England, I did it the right way, it took time and money and that was the price I paid to be allowed to stay here, my journey through the system is still not over, I have yet to have the conditions taken off my residency and in the years to come, hopefully gain my citizenship." You help state one of points. It should not take that long and cost that much for someone from England to immigrate to the U.S. After all, I was under the impression that we were in the age of so much advanced technology. Another problem I have is when an immigration judge says people can stay, why on earth would and immigration attorney object to that and appeal it? Why make it so difficult for people to come? I understand about terrorists, but that is still not excuse for the backlog and outrageous fees DHS charges. They drag most cases out to get the constant renewal fees. Also, why would you allow people to come here and live for years before you ever got to their case. When the case finally comes up after 10 years, the government changes it's mind. That in itself is an injustice. Take yourself for example, so it takes years to get to your case. In that time, you have a family, kids in school, house pay'ts, and car pay'ts, you have made your life here. What happens when your case finally comes up and they deny you? Will you just accept that decision and leave your family here or will you fight? If you fight and still they want to deport you? What then? Do you sell everything, quit your jobs, pull your kids out of school and away from friends, and just leave to start over somewhere else where you kids have never been?

As far as illegals, like I said before, this country has turned its head to the illegal workforce for years. Pretty much same situation.
1996 Clinton signs law about crossing and stay times and the 3/10/lifetime ban. That scares people who were crossing back and forth every year. Now, they decide to stay here to keep from having the trouble of crossing. I realize they are illegal. Not making any excuses. Our own government pushed this problem on us. Now you have people, who used to travel to see their families, bringing their families here. The people who stayed here illegally started families, buying homes, cars, put their kids in schools. A lot of these people got Taxpayer ID and started filing taxes. Now just for knowledge. Even if an illegal has an American child and the illegal has a Tax number. They can't claim Earned Income. IRS knows who they give those Taxpayer numbers to. If an illegal person tried to use it to get EIC, they would politely send the person a letter and adjust their taxes. Some of the same things I mentioned reguarding your case about living here for years and building a life apply to these people even if they are illegal. Some have married citizens here and do have children. Some are the main bread winners in those families. I realize they came illegally, but for my two boys, I would move heaven and earth to give the basic necessities of life.

Immigration laws are just as bad as the tax laws. For years they adjust this law, change that law,and add so many new laws that contradict other laws. Both of these should be easy enough to follow and understand. Making things so complicated to the average, intelligent person is just plain wrong.

quote:

this country has turned its head to the illegal workforce for years.

This is not true! You have jobs, have food, cared in hospitals for free, have kids,they go to schools. Why are you entitled for more than that? This country treat you better then your own, face it, and you still want more.American business owners gladly hire you, otherwise you won't be here.

Here are my 2 cents:

1. "Family" is not the reason why illegalas should be pardoned. If so, all criminals should be pardoned because they have families too (from tax evaders to serial killers); no soldiers should be deployed because they have familes; etc.

2. I work for the State providing free services to immigrants (with our federal tax money). 99% of my recepients are illegal. I can tell you for a fact that less than 1% of illegals were starving in their own countries. It was not a matter of life or dead to come to the US. They just did it because they wanted a better life. But who doesnt? That doesnt give you the right to break the law. Let's see, I wont declare side income so I wont have to pay the taxes so I can afford nicer things for me and family. Is it right? Of course it is not.

3. Racism? I am hispanic and have never felt it. No black or white person has ever treated me bad. They have always been very polite and courteous. As a matter of fact the only ugly looks I have ever felt were from my fellow "race-mates". You see, almost all the illegal immigrants in my area are very low educated people from the rural parts of Mexico and Guatemala and machism is very predominant (not all immigrants, legal or illegal, are like that, it is just the area where I